B Scar TV Podcast
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B Scar TV Podcast
The 3 Lessons Bimma Willams Used for Brand Success
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If you were given all the advice in the world, would you still follow your gut? If you discovered your passion, would you let it guide your purpose? Bema Williams has made it his business to not just play his game and elevate his craft, but to create space for others to do the same. But to create space for others to do the same. I hope you all enjoy this episode of Beast Guard TV with our very special guest, Bema Williams. Are we good? Well, that's a good way, that's a perfect segue. Thank you for being here, Of course, man. Thanks for having me. And we're just talking about inspiration. You know the inspiration behind. You know traveling in different cultures, yeah, and every show, every episode, every conversation starts off with hearing about the guest's inspiration, Because Beast Guard TV is all about inspiring our audience, inspiring each other, shared stories, shared experiences and curious for you right now. You know what's been inspiring. It's been inspiring you, whether that be your work or even lifestyle. Yeah, what's been inspiring you lately? Ooh.
Speaker 2:You know, I've been in a space lately where I think I've been inspired by the next generation, honestly, and more so, about like what can, what can I offer them that will help them take things beyond where we've been, you know, and especially because they have so much, so many different tools and so much access to stuff now, and I realize, like, how easy it is for them to get information, but not necessarily know what that information is or what it means or how it resonates, and so, like I see a lot of young creators and like I love what I love about them is the energy and like the output, and what I'm like I want to offer them and what I'm inspired to offer them, is how do we create things that are different, not monolithic, right, because right now we're in a space where I think it's rare to find confidence in doing something that might not. Rare to find confidence in doing something that might not you don't know if it's gonna work, you don't know, you don't see it out there in other spaces and um, and so there could be a little bit of like I don't want to put this out and get clout, you know, yeah, and so I'm really in a space of like and even for myself has been great for me of challenging myself to like how can I put something out where I feel like it's not? I'm not following trend, I'm not. You know I'm not a TikTok dancer, so I'm not going to blow up that way. You know I'm not a streamer, so I'm not going to add value that way. So what's, what's the unique way for me to think about that? So that's, that's a part of how I'm inspired. Think about that. So that's, that's a part of how I've been inspired. And then also I've been inspired by what's happening in culture from, um, the standpoint of. It seems like a lot of us are getting in a space where we want more unique things in general versus just like same same.
Speaker 2:So, when it comes to like cars, like I as no disrespect to any designers, but I just don't love the current design ethos around any modern cars. If I'm being honest and I look at like cars from the 80s and the 90s and the 2000s and I'm just like you know, these cars were crazy Bold, bold, the lines were cleaner, yeah. Old the the lines were cleaner, yeah. Everything now to me just looks so robotic and you look so like future, whatever someone thought future was gonna look like. But I look at you know just something I think everybody knows the car is like the the 80, 86 bmw e30 right, like those lines are just like. Like you don't see that. Yeah, I have a van from 93 that was like a Japanese import. Like you don't see that Right.
Speaker 2:The one vehicle I will say that I love and they're bridging the gap is what Lexus has done with the new GX and what Toyota same company has done with the new Land Cruiser. Yeah, and they took the inspiration from the 70s. We got a lot of them in portland, like we had a ton of these 1970s land cruisers. They brought it up to to modern standard. They put tech into it, so you get the best of both worlds. Yeah, that's inspiring to me. And bridging gaps is like I start I just look towards those things like, yeah, I like more that yeah, yeah, no, I feel that we'll turn this oh, oh see, that's the wall units he was talking about yeah, they have.
Speaker 1:Uh, so there used to be a little Toyota Land Cruiser shop. It's right up the street.
Speaker 2:Right up the road, yeah, right up the road, right on the land there, yeah, hop over the cut.
Speaker 1:Yes, they move. Now they're across the river. But I love those Toyota Land Cruisers Like the 70s models, just super boxy and just rugged. Yes, and I was partially like I fell in love with those 70s, 80s, like real boxy trucks, because it was the bronco thing was happening. It has been happening over the past few years. Yes, like ford kind of did the same thing, like, oh, a peeper trend. Oh, like folks are loving our vintage stuff. How do we bring that into modern day? And so that was uh, that was kind of the impetus of looking into it. But now I got my, my Chevy Blazer, yeah, whose name is Clyde. Clyde is born in 1971. It's great and that's been just a fun project and partially for me, I didn't want to get the Bronco, everybody else got the Bronco. I'm going to go.
Speaker 2:Blazer. See, that's what I mean. Like I think the uniqueness is what, like, I'm inspired by is like I want to see everybody's unique, like thing Right, like the, we don't need to be in the same stuff. You know saying like it's like going to a neighborhood and all the houses look the same. We, you know, we'd always joke, we'd be like. You know. You know, if you come home late one night, you just really tired, you go in the wrong house Because they all look the same.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, the cookie goes, cookie cutter, yeah, but I think partially. Man, like houses, cars, content over the course of time, it's how can we accomplish this thing? Cheapest, yeah, thing cheapest. So supply chains, the cost of the goods, the factories we go through, whether it's in China and India and Bangladesh, wherever is producing the cheapest auto parts or the cheapest doors for our house, or window panels, whatever, like all the distributors, we're all going to go there because it's the cheapest way to get our product off. We're all going to go there because it's the cheapest way to get our product off. And I think that's also in content too, yeah. And it will continue to be like, as soon as that next AI tool comes out that can chop all your raw footage into a 60 second reel, everybody's going to start. Continue to look this day To your point. How do you, how can you as a creator, as an automobile manufacturer, etc. Like, do something that's unique but also do it cost efficiently?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. I describe it as, like the battle between optimization and creativity, right, and so we're over optimized. We're so optimized right now that we, like Nike, went through it right over the last four years. Right, they optimized so much that they forgot about the creativity side. Right, so they invested so heavy into, like we know these things work, let's invest heavy in them so that they could we could really like maximize the output. Like we squeezed all the juice out of the, the panda dunk, right, and then you put yourself in a position where you're like well, oh wait, we weren't cultivating.
Speaker 2:Our next thing and that's where we are right in the world right now is we've been so optimized, right, we've been so convenience-driven that you know, like now Uber Eats has a, or Uber has a concierge service, right, so you can like, yo, I ain't got time to go see Beast Guard right now, so like, I'm gonna just send the Uber to come pick up the book. You throw it in Uber and Uber bring it to you. You know so like there's like that's actually creative though, but it's like too many of the ideas are just all about how can we save more money? None of the ideas, not a lot of the ideas of like how can we introduce something new solves a problem that will also make more money?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So when you talk about the battle of optimization and creativity, like do you think it's a pendulum that swings back and forth? It's like you, you over leverage into creativity. And then it's like, okay, we got got something, now how do we like produce this thing at scale, yeah, and then we'll get kind of back to this, yeah, over optimization side, and then, oh shit, we got to create again and like it swing back and forth it if it worked, for it to work in a way that a healthy business works.
Speaker 2:It's a cycle, it's like a, it's a typical product cycle and usually at Footwear we'd have like three-year product cycles. So if we introduce something new, we would introduce that to a very small audience. You know, early adopters, innovator audience, right, and they'll either love it or hate it. If they love it, they'll wear it, they'll influence the next group, right, which is like the early majority and so, okay, you know, if you look at like the dunk journey, that's kind of what happened when they brought it back. So, like you get into this early majority and by the time it gets to late majority, you should be introducing the new thing to the early adopters, right, and so you never. You never want to get into the space where you're exposed for being like out of date, out of touch, right.
Speaker 2:And Will Smith actually spoke about this when he thought about his career in his book, and so the way he described it was like when he's in a thing, if he's in a show, if he's in a movie arc, and they're promoting it, and he's like, ok, I got to know what my next thing is. I got to be having that incubating. I got to have that working. So once I get out of this thing, I don't look like I don't have a direction for me to go, and so he was always really clever at like figuring out his moves in that way. And that's when I think about creators, when I think about creating product. You got to think about that the same way you have to be. You have to always be innovating.
Speaker 1:This is the innovators dilemma. I just I just read that book last year I forget who the author was, but it was a great book around. Just like for companies, when you find something that's working really well, it's really easy to like, just lock into that thing because it's what's producing your cashflow, it's this and that it's like keeping the bills on you know, it's what's flourishing in your business. For Will Smith, like I'm in bad boys, like I'm gonna continue doing bad boys, bad boys one, bad boys two, et cetera, yep, right. But then you actually have to start to invest in what isn't making you any money, what hasn't been done yet, what is actually a risk, because at some point this cash cow is going to become obsolete. It's only a matter of time. So can you take some investment away from that and put it into the next thing? You have? Your next move? You have to, and it's so many businesses and even like individuals.
Speaker 2:No, it's hard to it because you get used to the cash side. You get used to the money coming in the door. It's predictable, right, that's what like. The best thing is when you got predictable income. It's also the worst thing because it's so predictable. It's like it's like when people get wealthy.
Speaker 2:They don't know how to be hungry, right, and so you're just ripe to be attacked right, like in old times, like if you were a king that was isolated in a castle. That's the most dangerous place to be right, because you don't know what's happening in the streets, so you don't know if somebody's plotting, you don't know what they're plotting, you don't know how they're going to attack you because you're disconnected. So you have to figure out how to do both. Kodak ran into this issue. Kodak was the biggest tech photography equipment producer of their time and the story goes a young executive brought them a white paper that said digital is coming and it's going to change our industry and we need to develop digital product. And the CEO at the time said no, we're Kodak, we've been here, we're going to be here after people want film, right, dog? Kodak went bankrupt Like Apple popped up. All these companies popped up, lapped these guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's because king at the top, one thing that was happening on the ground, thought it was impenetrable.
Speaker 1:You see it in sports also right Like. One example maybe, is the Green Bay Packers. You got Aaron Rodgers right Quarterback, you're winning games and at some point A-Rod's going to have to go to the New York Jets, he's going to leave Green Bay. So how do you prepare for the next wave? Yeah, are you willing to draft Jordan Love in the first round and upset Aaron Rodgers to invest in your future, knowing that at some point this ain't going to? It's not going, it's not going to continue like this. No, no, and it's going to upset the status quo. There's going to be friction in the locker room. Yes, you know what I mean. The executive's probably going to be disagreeing. Yes, a-rod's not going to be. He's not going to deal with beef all year. But then, okay, boom. Now you look, you know this past season. Yeah, jordan loves balling. Yep, right, yep. And it was the right decision. It was the right decision. It is a tough decision to make.
Speaker 2:It's always going to be a tough decision to make and that's why you get paid the big bucks to make some decisions. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, that's good man, that's good, oh man. So I'm curious man. So I looked through your bio, kind of like kind of breaking down your life, as far as I could tell into. You know chapters, and I just want to start with chapter one.
Speaker 2:Man, yeah, from louisiana yeah, man from louisiana grew up loving sneakers. You know, uh, parents worked at the chemical plant. I was young and, uh, you know what I was exposed to were professionals that worked at chemical plants and go to school, get a good job. You know, uh, also like Louisiana, baton Rouge is where I grew up. It's like 45 minutes outside of, uh, new Orleans and, um, we're very much a college town. You know, everything kind of revolved around LSU football and then everyone else kind of worked at either in construction or chemical plants, kind of worked at either in construction or chemical plants.
Speaker 2:And so, as a young kid who loves sneakers, what I do today was not on the radar, didn't know how to get to this point. You know, this was more so, like this is pure will. For a long amount of time it was more will and imagination than anything. Yeah, but like I would spend like dog there were. I worked at sneaker shops growing up. I would leave. I had this job in college and I would leave this job at lunch to go buy sneakers. I would like go to the shop called ruckus to go get. Like when sbs were popping in 05 06, I would go get. Uh, there was like these mf dooms that released that. I remember going get uh this one time.
Speaker 2:I was like an hour and a half wow and I was like I'm a lunch bird I was like I'm going to need help, though I was like I'm going to get fired, but I was just deep in it, like that was.
Speaker 2:You know I would do what I needed to do, but like my passion it was very clear. And in college, me and me and a friend ended up starting a streetwear brand. We ended up raising money from Tyrus Thomas, who it would go from LSU to play for the Bulls, ok, and so like at a young age, like I was like very starting to be very familiar with entrepreneurship and the risk of entrepreneurship and how to present ideas to get money and like all these different things. But I never really knew what to label, like, you know, if somebody asked me what my strengths are, what I do, like I could never really quite put a finger on, like how to say that, because I never had real, um, direct role models who did those things right, and so, like even the idea around a streetwear brand, we didn't know anyone who had a streetwear brand.
Speaker 2:That's what, that's what folks were doing in new york and la. We didn't know them, didn't know how to get in touch with them. Too shy to even probably reach out to get in touch with them, you know. And so there a lot this stuff. We're kind of just learning, making mistakes.
Speaker 1:This is pre, I mean social media is out, but we're talking MySpace.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you talk to the MySpace era, facebook, like. It's not like a like today, where it's like I sent a DM to you and, like you know, we could just like have a whole conversation. It's a different, it's a mindset, yeah, and so, um, I had always, you know, one of our dreams is like let's start a secret shop, let's have a sneaker boutique, let's sell our stuff there and, uh, I would end up working with different, you know, shops like I. The first shop I worked at was pivot foot, and then another shop was politics, which is still around to this day, like politics is getting ready to celebrate like 20 years in business. Um, and so, man, like that was just my world.
Speaker 2:But I kind of gave up on it, like when I got into, like my mid-20s because, like I didn't see any opportunities to get there, didn't see any options to get there. There's no one like come and knock on my door, you know, and uh, I had kind of drifted into working this full-time gig, data entry gig, um, after college and I was bored out of my mind, yeah, and like, I was still in louisiana, still in louisiana, still living at my mom's house, straight out of lsu, bro, showing up to work in like cargo shorts and dunks and fitteds, and my peers are showing up in pleated polos, with boat shoes. You know, I couldn't be more different. So I. At the same time, though, I was also a runner, and I've been a runner since like the fourth grade, third grade, I've been running. You know, that's just been my bag.
Speaker 2:And so I started this community about run culture, run community, and I would just interview different folks, and I didn't know what I was doing, but I was like I needed something to kind of feel like the creative side of me after I, kind of like was like nah, the sneaker thing's not going to happen. And uh, that's what actually put me on the map for sneaker brands, because it was through social media. Instagram was popping, starting to pop. Uh, twitter was already there, facebook was there, and all we were doing was just building community. So we do, we were doing memes. Before memes, we were doing uh interviews, video interviews. You know we go to different uh community running events and like film the who's, who that's there, and just like try to just show off what was happening all across the state of louisiana, okay, and so, like every saturday, it was nothing for me to hop in my truck and drive three hours to an event, go to New Orleans for an event, go to wherever, and that's when, like the Sakanis, started reaching out Okay.
Speaker 2:Like the Brooks running started to reach out and Adidas started to reach out. Really, they just saw what I was doing on the internet.
Speaker 1:And does Louisiana? Does it have a really big run culture?
Speaker 2:surprisingly, yes, oh, wow, okay, um, and a large amount of that is like we have really big races and so we don't treat running like obviously we have a serious like side to running and we have, like, really elite athletes. Okay, the larger amount of the community is just an excuse to get together for us and so, like we'll have this thing called Crested City Classic in New Orleans. It's a 10K, 40,000 registrations Damn Right, we'll have you know they'll do a marathon out there, like 20,000 registrations. At mile 10, there's somebody giving you a whiskey shot.
Speaker 1:That's tight, and you eating good at the finish line too.
Speaker 2:Look, you got jambalaya. You got, you know, you got the good beer, like all of this stuff. You know it's so funny. My father-in-law came in town. We did the for the marathon and the Portland Marathon. No shade in Portland. I love Portland, but you got one drink ticket for a beer. I love Portland, but you got one drink ticket for a beer. And he was like in Louisiana you can get unlimited beer at the fitness center. He was like what are they doing?
Speaker 2:I was like hey, I want no smoke. Yeah, smoke on this one, but yeah, so we and like we'd have running clubs, like it reminded me of a Deadstock running club on Tuesday nights. I used to manage a running club back in Louisiana called Happy's Running Club and we would get like 200 people on a Tuesday night to just come run a 5K and just have beer after. I mean, I made so many friends that way, we would go there at 6. I wouldn't leave till like 11 pm every week. It was crazy, that's cool. But so that was like that was my way of getting into the sneaker industry, was just like kind of forgetting about it, naturally leaning into something that I was passionate about, and kind of bumping into something that somebody needed and they needed. At the time, brands didn't know how to cultivate community on social. They were just taking like billboards and posting on their accounts, but they didn't know how to like actually communicate. And we're talking this is like 2010?.
Speaker 1:This is 2011, 12. 11, 12, okay.
Speaker 2:So it was like it was like goofy times.
Speaker 1:That's when I started. My Instagram account was 2011. It was a picture of a bowl of ramen noodles watching SpongeBob in my homie's dorm and I was like this is going to be my first Instagram post Was it over-filtered Because you had like. Oh, you're right.
Speaker 2:You throw all the filters on there.
Speaker 1:Oh man, what? Oh, it was so grainy, that was so dramatic, that was the most dramatic Spongebob episode ever.
Speaker 2:When I look at old stuff'm like, man, we was just like really learning. It was just like over vintage stuff. You know, man, what was I doing?
Speaker 1:oh bro, when I used to filter up the football photos, oh man bro, the most intense filter, and it was on every one too. Yeah, no, so that's, I mean that's really early right, cause it's like that's before. Mean, that's that's really early right, because it's like that's before video. My videos couldn't even be posted, that's only photos. So it makes sense, though, that, like, more legacy brands are like don't know how to do it, how to use it at all. We're still we were still.
Speaker 2:I was just like experimenting. I was like I don't know, like, and then, like they recruited sakin, ended up recruiting me and they're like come run our global social media. And I was like, huh, but it was funny, like that's funny. Like, at that time, what you have to think about is like think about these companies. They have all this hierarchy and this structure when it comes to every department, and so think about marketing. Like the head of marketing is a CMO. A CMO has like a minimum of like 15, 20 years of marketing experience across multiple verticals. They are the decision maker of how this brand shows up in real time. Like Jordan Brands got a CMO, nike's got a CMO, converse, adidas, etc. How they show up at Super Bowl, how they show up at All-Star Weekend.
Speaker 2:At this time, they didn't know what social media was. Imagine giving a 25 year old the keys to your twitter, your facebook and your instagram. Bro, I'm the. I'm to the, to the consumer. They don't see none of that other shit you posted. They talking to me in real time. None of that's like. You can spend millions of your budget on this stuff and the only thing that actually matters is social, which is why everything is flipped now Like it's one of the most important marketing roles to exist because of the conversation, and like the direct impact with the consumer Were you the first, I was the first.
Speaker 2:Wow, I was the very first. There was like a tweet that was like welcome, bmo Williams. To Sockany's Twitter, like this is who's running the controls now? Wow, I was doing. There was a. You know, this is when Miley first got first got hot after Hannah Montana.
Speaker 2:Hannah Montana, yeah, yeah and, uh, she was going crazy. Like this was like Miley twerking everywhere, yeah, and so she had just done the Grammys with Robin Thicke and, like the world had different responses to this and I was like no, what? There was no approval process, there was no one checking me and so, without thinking at all, I had this post. It was a running photo and on the text on top of it it said twerk less, run more, and it was the most viral thing for a running brand of the time. Like you, I was like running community was like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like people responded to it. They're like this is hilarious, but it was like eye open is like oh, when you figure out the culture was eye guys and figuring out how to pair it.
Speaker 1:Through the lens of your brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this is like now, man, you know what I mean Approvals and lawyers and like all this stuff because they understand what social is. Now they're like hey you ain't doing that.
Speaker 1:Wow Crazy, Wow, that's wild, bro Crazy man Dang so Saucony, you were running Twitter, instagram, whatever the social media platforms at the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was just like my first year, you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, like I was at Saucony for almost four years but by the time I was leaving I had transitioned into lifestyle, retro run sneakers and collaborations.
Speaker 2:Ok, and so, like that's where my like, my love of collaborations came, honestly, when I was at Saucony and like I got the firsthand experience of working with accounts, like we did play clothes with the clips, we did, yeah, we did a, a raekwon shoe, the snow beach polo inspired sneaker with packer and raekwon, like we were doing like these crazy sneaker projects, and I was like I love this man, I love the storytelling, I love the novelty, um, and it just reminded me of like you know, because I grew up loving j Jordans and and dunks and like I could kind of see that, but this was doing it at a completely different way and it was really tapping into like more niche creatives, thinkers, versus like these big, big, big celebrities, you know, or big, like like big, well-known athletes. It was just a different approach and so that was like soccer was just like a whole, like I don't know, the MBA program for me. I got my graduate degree.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're there for four years. It's a good duration. I guess a younger generation or what have you but you found a way to start to be more relevant throughout the company and maybe don't want to call them more important roles, but maybe more relevant to like the bottom line.
Speaker 2:We're driving money. Now we're actually generating revenue. We're hitting the bottom line. We are like we're critical to the goals of the company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how did? Was there a strategy? What did you learn throughout that process? Was it political? Was it just like here I'm showing my value through social media and they just come holler at me Like how did it work?
Speaker 2:for you. I learned a lot about office politics and dynamics and, like I was never, I was coming in the door super green. I didn't know what a lot of the roles meant and a lot of the titles meant. I didn't know what adhering to a job description meant. I was passionate. I would gravitate towards what I was passionate about.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would say, thankfully there were a few people within those walls that kind of recognized that I was like a hybrid creative business type, okay, and they recognized that I didn't know what I didn't know and that someone was going to have to kind of like protect me, my energy per se. And so there would be moments where there's a lot of conversations that happen organizationally behind closed doors and I'm just not aware of right. But one of the folks that recruited me at the time was the CMO of Sockany and so I think he had a personal vested interest in kind of like you're aware of this guy, yeah, and I remember, you know I came into social media. He was very excited about that and you know he wanted me to grow on the marketing organizational chart. But he started to recognize that I kept like drifting into this originals lifestyle world and wanting to help out, stay late and do stuff.
Speaker 2:And there was an opportunity for this hybrid role when I was first getting ready to transition and he was like you shouldn't take that role. You know he was like it's originals it's like $13 million is the business at the time and Sockity is a $300 million business. He was like you're going to no man's land. It was like just being honest with you, like we don't invest in it. Theoretically nobody cares, like it's a fun project but it's not.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't put your career into this and I didn't listen and because of a lot of the energy I was putting in there, the business became a $50 million business and by the time I was 29, I was running that $50 million business globally, didn't know what I was doing, but my instincts my instincts would typically handle a lot of these things for me, and so I would. I was one of those folks that I never leaned into the stuff that I wasn't really good at. I would just focus on stuff that I did know, where I'd add value and I'd just get better at those things. And so some of the stuff I did know was like I knew social better than anyone in the building, and so I paired that with influencer marketing and so we started very early on managing direct relationships with YouTubers and started to grow the business that way. And then from there we started figuring out how we can. You know my mentor, mike Hughes. He was the only one there working on originals. He had started this foundation with sneaker boutiques and so we started figuring out okay, how can we do better collabs there? And then how can we develop a D to C program where we do exclusive sneakers, release them D to C only, work with the influencers to promote them, and we ended up creating multi million dollar line for the brand that they didn't plan for, and so stuff like that was like this is just a good idea.
Speaker 2:I don't, I'm not looking yet I hadn't been trained on like what's the business case for this, why we do this, what's the audience, what's the you know, what's the concept behind it? How does it look, all of that stuff? I learned that later, you know, but in those moments it was just like instinct is like this is a good idea. Is anyone here to stop me? No, we're doing it. So I would like I would also learn. Like you know, just have folks blocking and tackling. But, most importantly, the only way folks going to block and tackle is if you get wins right. No one's blocking for you if you ain't winning. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's like every time he do some shit that don't work out.
Speaker 1:I'm good, I'm going to block you. You got to make somebody miss.
Speaker 2:You got to make somebody miss. You got to make a play. I'll block it for you, but you got to make a play. You got to make a play and so quickly I learned like if I was going to get, I learned about having influence. And if you were going to get influence, you got to make plays. You got to make other people look good, right, and you got to have a vision for doing something that's just going to be fun and exciting, because we all want to be a part of something fun, exciting and and um, that's that's what I learned.
Speaker 2:And thankfully, I had a lot of people, even my CMO. He came around. Uh, he ended up going to a different part of the business, but he came around. He's like. He's like I didn't know, I didn't see it, but you saw it. He's like I'm glad you, you, you, you did.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm not crazy, I think if you got folks in your life that have been different places and they're going to give you wisdom, you got to take it. I was like I took some of the wisdom. I was like I just applied it in a different way and had to figure out what was going to work for me. But that was that's. That's one of the big things. You got to take the risk, but you also got to be smart about Is this a calculated risk that can work out? You can't just go because you know your reputation is all you got and uh, hate to say it, but like we don't live in an environment where you can make a big miss and then they're gonna give you another shot yeah like you gotta kind of you, gotta win right right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the balance between, uh, being calculated and being willing to, to take the risk, at the end of the day, and listen to your instincts and what you see and what you feel and go after it. And I think that, like you know, you got to have some misses, to have some makes. You have to, you got to make mistakes. We were talking about experimentation earlier. I think that's like such a critical part to our growth as creatives, as business people, as athletes, as you know, whatever the case is, like you know, I think about things often through the lens of football and one of the things I learned throughout my career is, like, early on in my career, as an undrafted guy you know I was, you know undrafted dudes, they're not supposed to make the team you know, I made the 53-man roster but felt like I was walking on eggshells, I was afraid to make a mistake right, and so with that first couple years of my career, I really didn't, I didn't try a whole lot of new stuff, I just did what, what I knew don't work, you know. I mean I set that edge and I did my pass, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:But then, as I grew on in my career, I realized that the guys who were really out there making plays and and and uh, like the best pass rushers in in the league were the guys who was in training camp trying new stuff. I'm gonna try this fake spin left and then see what I could do if I can get by him. You know, I might actually, in one-on-ones, look like an idiot, I might get put on my butt, you know, and like be embarrassed in that moment. Yeah, but there will be one risk that I take. That's gonna work, and then I'm gonna be able to put that in my bag and have something that I do that nobody else does, you know.
Speaker 1:And then you know throughout the career, like some guy come up, came up with this cross chop move and was just getting sacks after sack or sack, and the rest of the league started doing it. You know, I mean, and followed along. So it's like it's the balance Right. It's like growing in your career and being able to gain the trust and not from your audience or your, you know your management, whatever to take the risk Right and then be willing to take that risk. You know, and put it in your bag whenever you do learn that, that new move or that you know that new industry or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've got to be willing to take risk in order to see what's going to work and also to see what the environment is going to want too, I think, like, especially when we're in an environment where everything kind of seems so consistent and folks are doing the same thing. The other thing that's important about experimentation is sometimes you've got to get folks used to something new. You get what I mean. Like you can't just put something out there and expect them to know what it is like. You have to also be aware of how to communicate that this is different. Communicate that, hey, this is, this is a good thing. Like, hey, this is why it's a value, right, because sometimes, when we just get stuck in like a certain thing, like if there's a certain type of like remember, trap, music has such a hold over like our ears for like four years, and like people would introduce other things and people be like no, no, trap. And it's a mixture of like right messenger and also communicated the right way, yeah, right. And so you know, if we have somebody like a Dolce breaking through right now, right, it's because it's the right messenger at the right time, communicating the right way and communicating consistently.
Speaker 2:And what you have to realize is when you're breaking in something new, you can't share it and expect it to grab immediately.
Speaker 2:You have to punch consistently, repeatedly, for folks to be like oh, this is a new thing, oh, I'm getting it, oh, okay, okay, okay, you know, and it takes time.
Speaker 2:Very rarely do things have product market fit at the same time, meaning very rarely do you create a product and the market is ready for it at the time that you present it. Sometimes it's going to take you time to massage it. And a confident, creative who's taking the time to do the work behind what they know they're not going to get their teeth kicked in because they feel a certain way, because they didn't get the immediate response they wanted. They know it's right. They just know it's going to take time and a lot of casts. That's just one of the things I just try to share is like, if you've taken the time to do your homework and you realize you got something that you're passionate about, you recognize it solves a need and there's nothing else like it in the marketplace, be patient, just keep hitting them with it and eventually they're going to get it. Yeah, it just might take them some time.
Speaker 1:I have a good friend who, uh, he says skate to where the puck is going, hey, hey.
Speaker 2:He says skate to where the puck is going. Hey, hey, skate to where the puck is going, not where it's been. No, go to where it's going, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I light up. So you're at Saucony Boom, you're there for four years, yeah, and then that gave you the opportunity Was that after Saucony, you came to Portland.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was literally February 13th, so Thursday is my eight year anniversary in Portland. So, yeah, we came for Adidas. I wanted a bigger opportunity. I love Saucony but at at just you know, 29, running that global organization, the lifestyle side of the organization I was there wasn't other folks that could mentor me because all of the other folks had experience in performance running. No one had experience in this space and I was like I like I don't know what I'm doing. I need mentorship to help me understand how to plan, how to grow a product range, how to market it, how to lead a team, like all of these things. You know, it's like that's a lot of stuff and you know the president at the time. He was like I'll be your mentor, but he's got a lot of stuff on his plate, you know, and there's stuff I wanted them to invest in that I couldn't get them across the line to invest in and ultimately I was like I need to go somewhere where I can like, see and learn, like I'm just, you know I'm a human, like anybody else. I want to grow. Every year I want to grow.
Speaker 2:Adidas was rebuilding some things. They were introducing um business unit for Yeezy, um. There was also a special products projects division that was, was uh uh in place, and so I was like I want to go learn. You know, adidas is doing doing a great job at Pharrell, you know, um, and a couple other artists at the time. And so I was like, let me, let me go see. And so Kalen and I, um, we ended up moving here. I think we've been here one time.
Speaker 2:Portland was never on the on the radar for moving, and it was a great decision because one Caitlin would go on to start her ice cream business Shout out to Kate's Ice Cream and I would go on to grow as a creative and a professional and just like make relationships that I never would have made. You know, I joke with people about. You know, the difference between being in Louisiana and being in Portland is that in Louisiana I would never accidentally run into a C-suite executive at a top sneaker brand on a regular Saturday, whereas here I'll give you an example and I'm not going to tell you who it is because I won't put their business out there, but I was walking, I was on a walk in St John's and I was on my bike in St John's and I remember because there used to be a bike shop on the corner and bloke bikes, I think is what it was called and there's a garage around the corner like a car garage. There's a garage around the corner like a car garage and I was just walking back getting ready to go get my bike and I see this tall, skinny, older white man with salt and pepper hair and he had Nike spokes and Nike shoes on and I'd never seen anyone with prescription Nike. He had Nike shoes on and I never seen anyone with prescription, nike spokes and I was just like that's kind of confusing.
Speaker 2:And he said what's up? I said what's up? And I looked in the garage and there are like 10 different niche limited cars in this garage. Okay, I'm not going to blow up the man's spot, I'm going to just tell you there's millions of dollars worth of cars in this garage, yeah. And I said are these, are these yours? And we just started having a whole conversation, okay. And then he goes on to tell me what he does and where he works. And he's like I was like it's funny, because I was in between my non-compete. I was in between heading from Adidas going to Nike. I couldn't go. I had this non-compete, so I had like a year, okay, and I was like well, I'll be coming there such and such. I think I was going to be there sometime in 2020. It ended up getting cut short, so I ended up coming six months early. He's like hit me up when you come on campus. And I was like this would never happen in Louisiana.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, wow, crazy, that's nuts, bro, crazy man. Yeah, portland is. It's that balance. It's like it feels like a small town, but we're not a small town. We're bigger than a small town. We're a city, yes, but the community is so tight knit and then also so much of our industry is wrapped up in sports, apparel, creative yeah, that, like that niche community is really closely tied together.
Speaker 2:It's so small. Everyone knows everyone, yeah, and I always tell folks. I'm like you know, because, like folks will see kind of how I communicate online and I'm like you gotta be aware of like the nuances to this. Though I was like you know, a part of this is like a lot of the things that I speak about and the projects that I speak about, I know the people on these projects. So there's one part to this. I was like. The other part is like I've worked in this, like I have credibility and equity in this space. They know that too, credibility and equity in this space. They know that too.
Speaker 2:And so the way I communicate is not in a way that a lot of other people can communicate, because they don't have the respect in the space to do that. And so I'm also like a lot of times some of this is inside jokes between me and friends I was like so a lot of times, like some stuff will go over heads, but I'm like you know, you gotta, you gotta understand the dynamics of this, of the space, and so it just like it's so small and everyone is from one brand to the next brand. They might be there, they might go somewhere else, and so it's a, it's a fun thing, but again, man, like, one of the things I'd always share to people is, like proximity is very important when it comes to being creative, especially entrepreneur, creator, and you got to be where it's at. They're not coming to you, um, they don't know you exist and you need to be loud about your existence in order for you, in order for you to get work. Like it just, it's just a reality of the space, because I feel like I went through to my career where it was like, coming from the South, you know, came from a very Baptist background and a lot of the things that I grew up learning were helpful things. They were not helpful for me as a creative, and what I mean by that was the way that folks think about.
Speaker 2:Being humble and advocating for yourself would be communicated as cocky or arrogant, as a negative thing, and I'm going to just be frank that if you're not advocating, you're not eating. As simple as that. There's so many other people that are close to decision makers, that are asserting themselves, reminding them of what they do, and those are the people that get fed. There's brilliant people who create brilliant work who aren't loud enough, who aren't eating, and it's because they aren't loud enough. And that's a tough thing. I'm naturally an introvert. A lot of people won't know that I've had to develop the skill sets of extroverts. But please believe, when I go home I'm on my couch and I don't want to talk to nobody.
Speaker 1:That social battery is deranged it be done.
Speaker 2:I'll be like, yeah, I'm good, I am good, my phone lives on. Do not disturb. Always People get so mad at me because they'd be like bro, I tried to call you.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, it was on, it was uh tried to call you, I was like yeah, it was on. It was uh, I'm not available. Yeah, dear, I had a. I had a friend tell me. He said, uh, just, he had like a little thought of the day last week. He said stars aren't made, they're marketed, cool that's a fact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a fact. You got a lot of people. That's okay, but they're marketing and they're messaging around. It takes them to a whole different place, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, growing up here in Portland there is like obviously there's the proximity, right, you got Nike, you got Adidas, you got Under Armour, you got Lulu, you got all these kind of different offices here that just like support the creative ecosystem. But as a city we're really prideful around individuality and keep portland weird was like you know, that was our bat signal. Yeah, and that's you know me, growing up, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like really a part of that keep portland where I didn't know where that was coming from and like the punk rock scene and everything that's going on.
Speaker 1:But I was, in a way I was influenced like we used to wear a lot of vintage when I was in high school, you know, and like my high school homies, like the older kids, you know white dudes at Central Catholic who were just like really big into the old, like old school snapbacks before New Era started doing the snapbacks, it was like we're going on eBay and we're looking, we're going into the thrift stores, you know we're getting like the jackets too Right, and like how we're putting the hat with the. You know the Abercrombie, oh yeah, like this shirt. And it was just that expression of like fashion. Partially that came from my household, my, my pops, to the way that you know he's always dressed really well but it was also embraced by the portland community to the point then when I go down to you know, when I left and went to california, went to school, like my willingness to go against the grain because of that upbringing, that embrace, and some of my, my roommates, and like guys on the team would make fun of me.
Speaker 2:Like bro, you wearing Tim's why you wearing, like you know, the homies from LA like.
Speaker 1:Tim's you're tripping. You know Tim's in a peacoat, like I'm on some different shit. You know I'm in the Bay Area, Tim's in a peacoat. They're like what you doing, bro and that has kind of been like a theme throughout my life is just being willing to. You know dress how I dress and talk the way I want to talk, et cetera. That I think is really embraced in my Portland. We embrace individuality and doing things a different way.
Speaker 2:Man, I can't advocate enough for that and I think sometimes I'm like man Portland probably get mad at me if I keep talking about this, because it's like our greatest secret and that is that a lot of people come here from bigger cities and the thing that I constantly hear is Portland, don't have nothing going on. Y'all don't have nothing going on. I'm like we do. You just have to search for it. Yeah, right, and a lot of our stuff happens at dinner tables, at houses, it happens in pockets of St John's Right, like.
Speaker 2:When I tell people I'm like you ever heard of Settlemyer, they're like no, I was like you know those jackets, the lettermans that you like, that you see like LeBron wearing, and you see Fear God, that's made in Portland. And then I talked to them about like DEA and I was like, yeah, you know there's a factory that's in Northeast that makes all of these things from scratch, and they're like wait where? And I was like, yeah, you know the agency that makes a lot of these campaigns. They like White and Kennedy, they like right here. And you like you started. They started to be like, oh, and you know them restaurants that you know a lot of New York chefs they test a lot of their stuff here and then they actually just end up staying here because we got a great food community. I was like so like you got to be interested in Portland, to be interested in you, you know what I mean. Like it works both ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know I'm like man, I can't be telling them all of this.
Speaker 2:Best kept secret man. I mean, I honestly, without Portland I wouldn't be the creative I am. You know a lot of things you already listed proximity to people, the ability to cultivate ideas here quickly and expensively here, the weather, a lot of other places. If I lived in LA, I'd probably be way too much outside just keeping it a buck In Portland. I'm not outside, I'm at my house and I'm cooking not food, I'm literally cooking ideas in that basement, you know, because I'm not going out in the rain dog, like I'll go hike every once in a while but I'm not like you know, I'm not like outside, like that. And so it gives me the ability to be hyper productive as a creative and hyper creative like imaginative and tapping in with other creatives. Like you know, I there's just so much stuff that we get to do that I'm like, yeah, I've got too many distractions now, don't keep getting me wrong. Like I'll travel to other places and get inspiration when it's time to cook I'm in portland I'll see you later.
Speaker 2:It's a great place to come home to right, great place to come home to yeah, rigid with the vision, flexible with how you get there. Yeah, it's, you don't change the vision, but you need to be flexible about how you're going to build, what you're going to build and the nuances of things that will change. And it's uh, it's just good to have you got to stay surrounded by that type of stuff. You got to be people that think that way. Yeah, books, content, whatever you can get your hands on. Uh, because there's so many other negative thoughts in the world that will take you off of this and you won't believe it's achievable. And I mean, y'all know you have to be damn near in denial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really cut down on my my social media intake over the last year and it's helped out a ton. It's helped me be more, uh, convicted about my creative ideas that's the word.
Speaker 2:Word, yeah, that's the word.
Speaker 2:I had a lengthy conversation about the word conviction over New Year's.
Speaker 2:We were in Mexico City at Soho House, and it was me and my best friend and his partner and my wife Caitlin, and we were having a very passionate conversation about how we both struggle with taking anyone's ideas serious if we can't sense conviction in them and like meaning.
Speaker 2:Like if I push back on your idea a lot of times I'm not pushing back on an idea because I have strong opinion on it. I'm pushing back to see if you dig your heels in, because if you're not convicted about it, especially for someone like me, like when I like I know what, I know what the value of that dollar is, and if you want me to put even my face behind it, or if you want me to put a connection behind it, I got to know you're going to die on the hill for it, or else I look crazy. I got to know you're going to die on the hill for it, or else I look crazy. Right, you got to be convicted about this stuff, like there's so much stuff in the world Like it's hard enough to make it happen and you ain't convicted it ain't?
Speaker 1:happening, yeah, and it's so easy to talk yourself out of your own conviction. You could talk yourself out of it In two seconds. Like it doesn't even maybe take someone else to like ask. You know, like push back, yeah, right up, can all it just happen upstairs you know, like scrolling through social and you see somebody else doing a podcast that like, oh, they're blowing up. You're like, damn, they're doing something different than you like damn, my shit must not be it's not, it don't start talking yourself out of it.
Speaker 1:I think partially like. For me it's helped to kind of just be in my own little world, my own little world, doing my own little thing, and you talked about like kind of like this last year you were in the bunker, Bro, Just getting right, you know, just working on Rep.
Speaker 2:Rep Every day. Rep. Can I do better rep? Try this today, try it this way today, try it that way.
Speaker 1:Every day is an opportunity to it's a new day and it's hard not to be convicted when that is the format of your days yeah, yeah, you like this, is it bro?
Speaker 2:like I'm gonna make it from this like, this is what, and it's like this is what I can manage, right. So I'm like I can't manage. At that time I couldn't manage a big operation. What I can manage was what can I create and do and put out myself? And what I can manage is what I can say from here, what I can write and the limited editing abilities. I had to edit something in 55 seconds. So I was like that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to get as good as possible at this and I'll tell you when I really.
Speaker 2:And so when you're at that point, like the confidence is shaky and it should be because you don't know what the fuck you're doing, your confidence should be shaky. That is the sign to you You're on the right path. When you don't know what the fuck you're doing, your confidence should be shaky. That is the sign to you you're on the right path. When you don't have a confidence, you're experimenting with something. That's why it's also important to experiment in a safe environment. Because your confidence is so shaky, you need to be in an environment where you can get it together, you're not going to be impacted tremendously by like negative feedback and you can have sort of constructive direction to get better, like when we we go into training camp like that's all. Training camp is Right, it's constructive, safe environment to experiment, try things so we can get better for the actual season.
Speaker 2:And so, dog, like I'm in there in the bunker sharpening up, getting better, sharpening up, getting better. And I remember going into last year I was frustrated. And I was frustrated because I felt like I was doing quick, short videos and I was like man, like I feel like I'm giving out really good information and this shit is duds, like it was like 4,000 views and it's like not that the views, the views is not the important thing. The engagement to me is the most important thing, like our folks engaging in a conversation, like what can I do better? Yeah, I remember I had this conversation. I reached out to Kevin Concepts and I was like Kevin, what I'm doing wrong, bro? I was like I'm watching your videos. Dog, you get like I'm watching your videos dog you get like 700,000 views on this thing.
Speaker 2:Comments going crazy.
Speaker 2:Ice kicks hype, beats, posting it. It's like what are you doing? He's like Bima. You know how Kevin is. He's so chill, relaxed and calm. He's like you're doing great, bro, show don't tell. I said what you talking about, kev? He was like Bima. You done seen stuff that we ain't seen. He's like, but you be telling us, you don't show us how. And I was like bet. He was like show don't tell. I said cool. Then I called my homie Jordan Rogers, and I was like Jordan, you didn't figure some shit out. I was like what did you figure out? He was like what you mean? I was like you know what I'm talking about? Your video is going crazy right now. And he's like and he again, he's another one of these short form specialists and he was like hey, you know I focus on sports, I focus on sports marketing. These are four areas that I focus on and you know I just try to like attack that. And it's like bet.
Speaker 2:So February 2024 comes around, it's Fashion Week and Pharrell is getting ready to do his second show with Louis Vuitton Okay, getting ready to do his second show with Louis Vuitton? Okay. And at the time there was a rumor about Pharrell Louis Vuitton at Timberland. And then I started seeing it on social media and I was like well, I like to talk about marketing, I have a deep marketing background, let me see if I can put something together. So I put this video together and it's basically like man pharrell knows how to get our attention, don't he? And I, just like you know, he did the seating here, he did the, the, the timbo here, blah, blah, blah, blah 275 000 views. I said huh. So I didn't immediately click. Yeah it, I got the outcome, but it didn't immediately click. Why?
Speaker 2:yeah and so I started to do more kind of marketing videos connected to culture and so, like j cole's rollout when he was doing uh, the, the vlog videos he was dropping really last year, yeah, and then there was like a back-to-back Tyler Pharrell and like Toby videos and they all just like hit and I realized they were all sneaker related. And then I realized like, oh yeah, I don't know about the stuff that I be talking about in my group chats with my marketing homies and I was like, oh, this, my shit, it's something. It don't take me no time to do this. I, this is just what I texted talk about in general. And when I figured that out, man, I, um, it went from experimentation to deliberate and I deliberately started to. I deliberately started to focus on sneakers marketing and specifically collabs. I stopped every other type of content I was doing. I didn't do no more carousels. I didn't do try to post in other places. I didn't do no more. I was doing like scripts and like sharing those, those ideas. I just focused on the reels.
Speaker 2:There were days that I would post a video and I wake up the next day with 10,000 new followers and I was like what is happening? There were days where I'd have a video crack a million. I didn't have to do no dance. I've sat in a chair and just was like this, this and this and this is what happened. And I was like this is what I've been looking for. How can I share what? And that's the hardest thing for a creative like me is because I'm not a photographer, I'm not a? Uh, I'm not a director of photography, I'm not a graphic designer, I'm not an apparel designer. What I offer is all mental. How do I show the value of that? And when I figured out how to do that in a video form, I was like yeah, I'm going hard on this, harder than anything.
Speaker 2:And that's when the confidence like, like when you're building something new, like I knew I was in a rebuilding year last year. After we had sunset claim, like we got impacted early by the DEI switch and we got bucketed in the DEI. The budgets started to disappear February 23. So I knew that and um, and like uh, obviously we can go back through those things, but just for this point right now. Um, I expected my rebuild to take a lot longer and I'm still in my rebuild. But what I mean was I didn't expect to have a new concept, like I was like very much in a space of like I'm just going to experiment and like we're going to get there. It'll take us some time and get there. We just in a sandbox right now, and to have something that hit and then to then package it within the same year and then have the audience respond, I was like, yeah, this is, this is crazy, but this is, this is the end of the five year, but we could start. We could start on the beginning of the five year.
Speaker 1:But you found this moment and, like we were talking about earlier through experimentation, right, because when I started following your content, it was a lot of marketing, education as a whole, and I imagine that's what Kevin maybe was telling you were. You were telling us, you're telling us how to do it, and I appreciated a lot of that content, bro, and I really you know kind of bookmarked it put it in the back of my head and started to apply some of them.
Speaker 1:Like some of the things that you've talked about having a uniform. Yeah, some them in the back of my head and started to apply some of them, like some of the things that you've talked about having a uniform. Yeah, some of the creative ways on being able to get projects funded. Yeah, right, because you had a podcast at Portland State University.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was the first season of Claiming Stories was funded by Portland State and we figured out the mechanism that made it mutual for both of us, right, and you know, I was like that, helped me buy equipment, helped me rent space, you know, helped me with editing, like stuff like that will allow us to present ourselves just a little bit elevated, you know, and just a little bit try to separate ourselves from, maybe like our peers that are in the same class, right, and that was what that was about, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, man's, it's interesting because because now you are a collab marketing educator. That's the title, yeah, and it's narrow, it's narrow, it's collab marketing educator yeah.
Speaker 1:So an educator, that can mean a lot of different. Yeah, you can have a speaking engagement on that, or you can be a consultant or you could be a strategist or whatever, right, but collab marketing, that is a narrow thing, yeah, and before this I'm just thinking like claim a stories, the podcast with all different types of creatives, yep, and then it was marketing education, and then it. Then you found the collab, like that, the pharrellll, louis Vuitton, that video hit and then, bro, it seems like over the last five years it's been a dance of trying to find the position of your brand, and so I'm curious just how you share, like some lessons of how you found that. Yeah, because you know, like, from a branding perspective, the way that you present with the purple and the brown is dope. It's dope, bro. You're one of the few people that I know do that. We had Ian. Ian was the first episode. It was a virtual quarter and he said he talks about how you like a cartoon character.
Speaker 2:He called me Doug Funny.
Speaker 1:Cartoon characters always wear the same thing. He talked about I think it was the episode of Doug, where, like, doug opens up his closet and it's like all the same the same sweater vest, but like, even that, you know finding that and making that decision, and now, over the past five years of your entrepreneurial career, like finding an even more narrow brand. I'm just curious. This is holistically the lesson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. So you know, I think one of the big things that I recognized about how I was going to go about this thing was that I'm not a creator that leans in the trend. And if you're not going to be a creator that leans in the trend, your path is going to be a bit more difficult, right? Because you're not going to get those pops of moments where, because you use the viral sound, your video is going to pop, or because, like such and such is on this style of video, you're going to pop. Right? For me, I was like man, I got my own lane, my own vision, and when you have that, it's going to take you some time to get other people to come around to that, even if it's good for them. You know, it's still going to take some time for you to build up your own credibility, for you to get for them to trust you, right? I think that's one important thing that I have to share with folks is like it's not that the idea isn't good, right, it's not that what you're sharing is not good. It isn't valuable A lot of times it is, but trust goes a long way, because they have to trust that what you're doing is going to make them money, they have to trust that what you're doing is going to give them something back in their day. And, man, when I started out, I am so appreciative that I had the experience working in marketing for brands, because there was a couple of things that I learned that I recognize that some of the other cats in my class at the time of 2019, 2020, that were doing content they just didn't instinctually know, and what I knew from day one was how to create a brand. I've always known since I was 18, how to create a brand, and what I mean by that is not a lot of people think of brand and they think logo Dog. That is not a brand. A brand is how people feel about you when you're not in the room. Do they remember what it is that you offer when you are not in the room? When we see golden arches, we know what that means. When I smell them French fries, I know where they from. That's the brand. You know what I mean. I know what that. I ain't even got to say the rest. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:So when I learned these things, I was like OK, so I'm not building a podcast, I'm building a brand, and this brand, claim of Stories, is about what was about at the time. Right, it was about how can we elevate black and brown creatives to teach folks about the creative process, to teach them about what was offered in the process. And I knew I was like, okay, well, how do we do this in a couple of different ways that is going to help us stand out. And so one of the ways that we were going to do that was like, well, we need to have a color branding system that can help us stand out, because folks might not remember the logo, they might not remember me, they might not remember an episode, the name. And so I said, well, let's figure out from a color standpoint what we can do.
Speaker 2:And so purple was one of those things that I started to latch on to. And so purple was one of those things that I started to latch on to when I started to think about other brands. They use color really well and people just really can associate their brand. So Hermes orange I know what that is. Tiffany, that Tiffany blue you know what that is. Chicago Bulls red we know Jordan brand they use colors in such a way.
Speaker 2:And what really truly inspired me was. I would say sports was the biggest inspiration when it came to how I thought about color, because I thought about teams and I thought about, like man, this is just so dope and so purple was one of those first things that I was like one. It wasn't about that other people use it or not. It was about what does it mean and how does it connect to me and the color purple to me. At the time you got to think like the country's been so divisive, the world's been so divisive, and like we're always separated Right and so we're like red or blue, whether it's gangs, whether it's politics, it's separate, whether it's gangs whether it's politics it's separate and I was like, hmm, I want to bring people together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, purple, purple. The other thing was I'm from Louisiana and I recognize that I've been on a path that a lot of my peers haven't been able to go on, and I recognize a lot of them still follow me and there's a lot of homies that I'm still in touch with and I want to send a nod back home. So I wear a purple hat to make it very visible and clear that I'm representing you wherever I'm at. Yeah, right, and so that was. You know, one of the things I had to realize is like, if, if, if, podcasts, if there were a million podcasts that were created in 2020 versus like the previous year, I think, it was like somewhere like 200,000. There's a sea of competition. How do you stand out beyond just um, beyond just your content? Right, like content. If your content is good, it markets itself, right, yeah, but that's also not enough. And like you kind of already, you already pointed out, right Like, stars aren't made, they're, they're marketed. That's the whole thinking behind that too. So that's one of the things. So like, we're on a journey of like. How can we separate, like, how can we stand out in this seat. So that was one of the first things.
Speaker 2:The second thing that I realized was, if I am the host and you see all of these hosted people all the time differently a lot of people when I look at their socials they don't get retention, like they'll have a video that pops but people won't follow and then they don't remember who this person is. And the marketing brain in me is like what is the reason why a logo exists? So I can remember what it is. That's the reason why the name exists. So at some point, if I see it enough times, I remember yeah, and I was like I'm the logo, I'm the logo, I am the brand. So if you see me consistently in a certain thing, speak in a certain way, consistently, then the only thing you can associate with me is that Right, it's a commitment.
Speaker 2:The third thing it does it gives people something to talk about, because while a uniform is not unusual B, it's not unusual but when we see it in areas outside of sports, outside of servicemen and outside of companies, we think, oh my God, that is so strange. It's like you decided to wear seven of seven, seven days a week. That's so weird, it's not. It's not weird at all, but because of society, because we're so used to buying things, we're so used to wearing different things. If we go out one night and you see me the next night and I'm wearing the same thing, you like what's going on with me. And I'm like that's the point, because now what I've effectively done is I've done these things, I've associated you with the color purple, I've set up subject matter that you now associate with. And now, third, I also have you talking about something that relates back to that Right, and so it's really thinking through all.
Speaker 2:You have to really think through the dynamics of human interaction, how we think, what we pay attention to, what are the needs that we need in order to get something to stick. And that's what I mean about conviction. Right, like I'm convicted to this, right, like my wife is like you go wear brown all the time. I'm like you know, and I take my brand serious. Like I go to um, uh, shout out to the ladies at the influential on, uh, on MLK, um Eileen and uh Nakia, they take care of my locks. And um, I remember when I I started growing my locks and we're talking about the journey and I say, yeah, you know, um, this is also going to be a part of part of my personal brand and I was like one day they're going to be a certainly, so we're going to have to cut them every couple of months. And uh, we got to get the color right. They get. They usually get so mad at me about cutting my locks. And then Nakia was like you can only get your hair dyed once a year, because she's like they're very protective of my hair and she's like, yeah, does it get dried out or whatever?
Speaker 2:But like, all these things are like intentional things, because competition is heavy and also I don't create things that are trendy, and so you have to think about all these other things if you want to go this route in order to have staying power in a world where we look at something different every seven seconds. Our ADHD is higher than it's ever been. We are more distracted than we've ever been, and so if you want to stand out, if you want to really rise above, you got to do some interesting things that feel good to you, with integrity, right and like. For me, this is like I'm a brand marketer. This can, this is fun to me. You know like. This isn't like I don't make these decisions and I'm like, oh man, I got to step outside like this today. I'm like, nah, this is, I'm happy to step outside like this today, you know, um, so that's that from that was was one of the big things was like that.
Speaker 1:The second lesson Was before you get this. Yeah, yeah, I realize that your dreads always at the same length.
Speaker 2:They've never changed.
Speaker 1:Since they've been this place, I realize that now that you say that I'm like damn, this dude has been the same, bro, what.
Speaker 2:Bro, every year we have a cut. Wow, bob Lain for always. I don't want long hair, bro, wow bro.
Speaker 1:It's like bro, it's an investment in titillousness, bro.
Speaker 2:There's no one else. That's the thing. There's no one else. You can't mistake me for anyone else. It's not possible, and that's a good brand. You can't mistake the swoosh for any other logo. Wow, you can't mistake the Netflix logo for any other logo. No matter how hard Verizon tries to bite off their brand, you can't do it.
Speaker 1:Bima, bima you're going to look the same in 2025 as you look in 2030,. Bro, look the same in 2025 as you look in 2030, bro, is that the same hair, the same thing?
Speaker 2:Until I mess with everybody and do a brand refresh Right right, right Switch it up.
Speaker 1:Oh, bro, you're going to fuck them up with that one. Hey, whatever that first 55 second video drops, you'll be in purple and green. I don't know what you're doing today. Hey, something's wrong with them hey man make sure you're good in that bitch, bro, real talk, wow, okay yeah, I just wanted to really love man, okay. Second lesson, second lesson OK yeah, second lesson Second lesson Relationships, relationships, relationships, relationships.
Speaker 2:When I when we started the first podcast in 2019, we started claiming stories, you know we had we also did have an intention of like one day we'd love to be able to do this full time. We also did have an intention of like one day we'd love to be able to do this full time. And the ways that folks have gone about this are advertising People, sell, merch, they do all these different things. But the world that I come from, I knew brand partnerships, I knew collabs. That's what I know and that's the thing that I really enjoy putting together. And in order to get brand collaborations to work, yes, have to have a concept that works. Yes, have to have an audience. Yes, you have to have a proposition that the brand is interested in, aligns with them. And you got to know the people that cut the checks. And there's so many like times where I remember I created when I created my first thing in Louisiana the running community. It's called Claim your Journey and today everybody's like run crews are the new streetwear. I don't know what that means. I will never know what that means, and it's probably partly because I am a runner and I also have the new streetwear. I don't know what that means. I will never know what that means, and it's probably partly because I am a runner and I also have worked in streetwear and I don't understand a statement.
Speaker 2:But, um, this was a time when folks were like, well, the way people were talking about running crews then is what people are talking about now.
Speaker 2:You see, these run crews pop up and and all of those different things, and I always said I was like man, if I was in New York or when I was in LA, I was like this thing would be crazy, because I was seeing stuff like the November Project in Boston and people getting book deals and they getting funded for such and such, and so I felt like probably felt like when I got here, I was like I got to prove that to myself and we were negotiating our first big deal that would have set us up to really go full time and like I was working at Swoosh and COVID had just hit, and so there was a unique opportunity because folks needed different brands, needed content, stuff, and then also at the time, as you find out that they treated they treated Black and brown lives like trends, that they needed content related to that, and so we're negotiating this deal and we're negotiating this deal for like four months. Six figure deal. We're negotiating this deal and we're negotiating this deal for like four months a six figure deal.
Speaker 2:We've been the biggest deal I've done outside of my professional career, so as an independent which was meaningful to me, like don't get me wrong Like I was happy to negotiate and do a million dollar business as a profession, but it means something to do it under your own name.
Speaker 2:We get ready to look at the contract side contracts. They send us an email and they're like we can't move forward with the deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I'm like sunk, because I'm like I finally like what I'm passionate about meets from a monetary Right. Yeah, so at the same time this was June 2020, the last episode of season one of Claimless Stories comes out and the interview is with this guy named Nuo Gote. He's a really good friend of mine and he used to work at Converse. And Nuo is from Liberia, his family grew up there, he's a marketer, he's worked in different places and he does this interview. And this is what's great about interviews right, it opens your network up. Right, it just brings listeners into your world from a guest standpoint that may not have been there from the initial guest. It brings in all of these listeners from a professional side, from.
Speaker 1:Converse.
Speaker 2:One of the listeners at the time was the CMO from Converse and Nuo hits me after the episode, drives us like man you won't believe how many people have hit me up about my story and just like my career journey. And he's like I've been meaning to put you in touch with one of my mentors and I was like who he's like? Cmo from Converse. I said why you put me in touch six months ago? Not the right question. When it's supposed to happen, it's supposed to happen, dog.
Speaker 2:I get on this call with the CMO of Converse at the time he's not there anymore and he goes hey, what are you trying to do with this? And I started giving him my pitch. Stops me halfway in my pitch. He said here's what we want to do. We want to sponsor season two whole thing, and we want to assign you as talent to work with us in a hosting capacity for some of our other projects that we're doing. I said huh. He said yeah, that's what we want to do. He's like wouldn't you be interested in that? I said absolutely. So I'm thinking like all right, maybe it'll happen, maybe we'll hear something a couple months from now. He got this deal done in four weeks. Wow, in four weeks.
Speaker 1:And the other deal had just had just fallen through.
Speaker 2:Wow, in four weeks. So deal gets done and by July I put in my notice to swoosh. July I had put in my notice to swoosh, I was out and like that was the, that was the transition. But relationships without the introduction, without the proximity and also without the resume Cause that was a working resume. I always tell people that I was like one interview could be the working resume if it's at the level that it needs to be Right. But that row without that, without season one, without season one, without the relationship, we don't get the Tyler interview.
Speaker 1:And the timing? Right? The timing Because that was your last interview of the season, but you all already had all of this content from the season for them to refer to. Yes, had he been the first one, and they're, you know they were like season to go look at. Yeah but, bro, for that to happen, bro, the timing was perfect.
Speaker 2:The timing, bro, and and so that was like, okay, bet. The third lesson always be selling. What I realized, one of the lessons that I learned was from the selling. Lesson that I learned was from watching Uncut Gems. Okay, and if you remember about Uncut Gems, aside from it being exhaustingly uncomfortable, the entire movie was.
Speaker 2:Adam Sandler in that movie knew how to sell and raise the value of something from turn to turn. So if he said to you this is 20K and you agreed, bet. Next person, this is 300K, next person, this is 400K, he wasn't waiting for to put it into the market. He was like once I got this, I don't. That's the proof point. The proof point is that somebody else values it at this amount.
Speaker 2:And what I see with a lot of creatives is like we be waiting for, like, oh, when I put out this whole season, then I can charge X. When you put out something that someone values, then you can charge X. There's no imaginary timeline, it is. Is it value? Do people want it or is there a lineup of folks that want it? That's how value increases. Demand increases it. Right, you limit the supply, the demand goes up, the price goes up. So we had the commerce deal and the Tyler situation, I knew it was time to sell. So immediately we go to work, we're shopping to Vistaprint, we're shopping to Saucony, we're shopping to Clark's 47 brand. Like we're trying to talk to Shopify I mean Spotify at the time Like we are literally like when you're hot, it's the time to go Right. And so that lesson is like always be selling, but the other part of that lesson is like if you're not hot, it's hard to sell.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just hard, because they're like where's the proof that people want this? Right, you know what I mean. Like you've got to be aware of, like, what is the thing that people want from you?
Speaker 1:And then that's what you go sell, so you're able to leverage. Converse has already invested in season two. So then, in prep of season two, now you're thinking about who's going to sponsor, and come on for season three.
Speaker 2:Season three and tertiary partnerships within season two. Okay, right. So, whether it's event stuff or whether it's product stuff, like how can we start to like get ourselves another level of revenue and also expand and grow the audience and serve the audience needs in different ways? Yeah, and you know that's when it comes to like you got to. You got to be able to act in the moment. You can't like it's not going to come to you. Yeah, right, but you got like. You got to think about if I'm an independent podcast and I got support from a brand like Converse, that's attractive to other brands, right, right, because they're like why they trust you.
Speaker 2:When we get trust, it just shortens the questions. You know what I mean? It goes from like them asking you about 18 things to them being like oh, that was a guy to interview Tyler. But come on, yeah, that's what set up the Amazon deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's kind of the reason like when you, when you see high school recruits, amazon deal. Yeah, you know, it's kind of the reason like when you, when you see high school recruits, when they come out of high school, when they're in high school, you, you rarely see guys with one division, one offer, hmm, hmm, because when you get that first one, there's going to be the one to follow on.
Speaker 2:We can't miss out. We can't miss out. University of Oregon. They see some Oregon State, yes, come on, come on, we're gonna give them the office too. Yes, and when it's the right folks, they influence that right. So university of oregon will influence the other ones, right, because they see them. It's like oh, they got a leading program. If they know, we must you know, and that's that's the commerce thing, and and that's what started to lead to some of these other things, and so you have to be aware of those things as a, as a creative, of. Ok, so how can I continue to put myself in position so that these opportunities come? Because when, like, the thing I always say too is like, remember when it's your slowest, and if you always know what your slowest felt like, you know how to then capitalize because you don't want to be slow again. No, you do not. It is the hardest to build momentum when you're coming from zero, right, if you're rolling down a hill much easier to get momentum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there's also a lesson in in the ability to not just create an asset it's important but then understand how to leverage that asset. Yeah, I think about how the n like the asset is the game, right? Yeah, the game. But it's not just the live viewing of the game that you see with the NFL. You got hard knocks. You know the prep of the game of the regular season. You got ESPN who's licensing the highlights? Right, the highlights might show up on our phone. It's all built around. The asset is is the game that's being played, but then being able to leverage that for different streams of income what's the players around the game, what's the?
Speaker 2:what's the? What are the tenants around the game that then allow you to to go build these other things? Like that's. It's like, and you know again, also like I would. I think the other thing that I do is, like I try to learn from a lot of different things. Like I, I spent a lot of time learning about sales you were talking about your brother and like I, will learn about sales from different things, whether it's books or whether it's looking at how creatives and coaches sell online to movies. Like I love to just understand, like, how are they selling at these prices? What?
Speaker 2:Another one is what do the documents look like that they present that convince people to give this type of money? It is a specific way that it's communicated and a lot of times, you know, we as creatives were like man, I got this idea, it's so good. And then they're like why ain't nobody rocking with my idea? It's like your idea is very transparent to you. You've been, you've sat with it the longest. You see it in your head. What is in your head we don't see. You have to present it to us, so us to get on the same page to know if, like, that's real. And the thing about that is, you got to know your target audience and you got to know what is of importance to them.
Speaker 2:There's a quote that and I'm a butcher, the quote but when you can, when you can show interest into my needs, only then will I show interest into your needs. And that is human psychology. If I don't know how you will help me, I damn sure ain't helping you. That is the essence of it. That is a client, that is a business. Your client has a need your content. They ain't supporting you because you putting out content. It's not a business. Your client has a need your content ain't. They ain't supporting you because you put out content. It's not a charity. They're supporting you because it helps them solve something Right.
Speaker 2:And so every time when I figured out that nugget, a lot of things are simpler, a lot of things are way simpler. It wasn't. It wasn't around the thought of like, but you should support me because I'm passionate about it, or you should support me because I'm doing the right thing, or you should not be. What do you need? Ok, that's what you need. Ok, bet. So if we do it like this, this and this, this is what this is how this piece of content will help you. That's a completely different framing, yeah Right, and you have to think we are in service.
Speaker 2:The biggest of the biggest are in service. Shannon Sharp is in service. What he's doing is of service, and that's the reason why it's so good. He gets that, and when folks come sit down, they get that. They know what he's in service to do, whether it is to create a comfortable space for the guests to share their story, or whether it's we get more eyeballs. We don't sell more of this yet, and so when I say of service, it ain't always got to be something very serious. It could just be like I'm trying to move more candles, so I need to position this in a way. That's going to move more candles, but you got to know that. You got to know the audience that wants that and you got to know what they want, and then you give them the best version of that, or or the different version, yeah Right.
Speaker 1:Keeping the end in mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you think about the future Bima and also you think about the future of culture, can we converge on those two things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited. I'll tell you that, like this is this is. This is a very exciting time for culture and I'm happy with where I'm positioned in in in that trajectory and we're at a space where we're seeing an audience get louder about appreciation for nuanced content, nuanced creativity. Again, we don't want the same type of movies anymore. We don't want to see the same type of content. We don't want to see the same type of clothing or sneakers or cars. We're asking for all these things to start to appreciate nuance again. Right, it's kind of the way like Portland lives is, like we appreciate the uniqueness of different businesses. Right, we don't want to go every excuse me, every corner and have like a fast food chain. We want y'all want to go over there and get some West Indian. I want to go over here and get some Asian. I want to slide over here, get some Greek. Like we like all these different things. And so right now, I'm so excited about being able and everything that a collegiate educator would do is what I'm going to do in the open market.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a reason why I speak a certain way, especially the way I speak online is because that's how we spoke when I came up in a sneaker shop and I said if I'm going to speak to the younger me, I can't talk to them like this buttoned up professor, I can't talk to them with this jargon that no one understands. I got to give it to them, I got to meet them where they are and I got to share it in a way that makes sense to them. So when people see me talking about sneakers, I have to remind them. Like a large part of my audience gets it some of them, it goes over their head. I'm like I'm not ever really talking about sneakers.
Speaker 2:Today I might be talking to you about brand design and I might be using this to show you that. Or tomorrow I might be talking to you about a brand activation, but I might just be using Travis Scott that day as the example, right? And so a lot of times like I get to educate without folks recognizing that I'm educating, you know. But you know, one of the big things I'm excited about is next year the book comes. So, books coming next year, let's go home. And it's going to be uh, it's gonna be this guidebook around collaborations, and it'll be for creators, it'll be for brand builders and it'll be for small business owners, and it'll be like the only book you need when it comes to that subject matter. So that's, that's what I'm excited about beautiful man, beautiful.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I'm excited for the book. I appreciate it. When it drops, I will order it and it'll go up somewhere. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to keep it in frame Next to Joe, next to Joe. That's exciting, bro, thank you. That's exciting. Like I said, you've inspired uh a lot of folks, a lot of your audience, uh, and, and how generous you are with your edu, with the education, thank you. That comes from experiences, but also comes from what you're seeing out in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and uh, in practice yeah, in real time, you're living it. That's that's what I try to tell people is like, uh, my favorite rappers rap what they live, right, I'm rapping what I live, man, I I'm doing it in real time and I'm also sharing it in real time and like I'm like this ain't I didn't get this off of chad gpt, like I didn't google this, like this is like I just came out of a deal. I'm not telling you what the deal is, but I'm telling you the principles of what happened in it. You know, and so like hopefully folks can get that and go get themselves a bag, feed their family, pour back into their community the way that you do every day. You know like that's, that's all I'm trying to do 100 percent.
Speaker 1:You know well. You're looking at my uniform right here. I love it. I've been in the all black. I love it with the best. Every episode, man, I've been tempted to go outside the framework, but now, man, I just I'll change up the song. That's where I go, that's my flexibility within the uniform, bro, and and this is like I see it as a reset you and then reset my closet with the neutrals, with a lot of black, and then I'm going to come out the other side with a more expanded color.
Speaker 1:But, it's going to be narrow.
Speaker 2:This is foundation and we can evolve around that. I love that.
Speaker 1:You got your brown, I got my black. Yeah, look man, I'm going to build in my purple hair soon. You know what I mean. Just wait for it.
Speaker 2:We're going to get you some purple in there, dog.
Speaker 1:It ain't going to be purple. I tell you all I don't care, I don't want to slug it for the audience. I tell you, man, I tell you, but I appreciate the inspiration that you provided. I appreciate what you're doing, man, Glad that you dropped for me. Yeah, I know, you know, Ty RB, all of us, you know, creatives like you're leading the way, and it's been. It's great to learn from you, bro man. So I appreciate you coming on the show All right, bro.
Speaker 2:Thank you, appreciate it Absolutely. All right, y'all.
Speaker 1:Peace. This episode of Beast Guard TV has been brought to you by Scarlet Creative. For the full length video episode and more content, find us on Instagram, youtube and TikTok at Beast Guard TV, and please leave us a review. Drop a comment. What do you want to see? What do you want to hear? What do you want to hear? Who do you want to hear from? We would love to hear from you. This is your host, with the most Brennan Scarlett signing off Peace, thank you.