B Scar TV Podcast
Hi-Quality conversations with your favorite creators, thought leaders, and cultural tastemakers - hosted by Brennan Scarlett.
B Scar TV Podcast
S3E3: Sinclaire Johnson
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USA Champion and Olympic Trials finalist Sinclaire Johnson dives into the science, strategy, and soul of professional distance running—what it takes mentally and physically to toe the line with the best.
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Introduction to Elite Track Season
Speaker 1Welcome to the show .
Speaker 2Thank you , yeah , happy to be here .
Speaker 1Yeah , appreciate you being here . We've known each other for a couple of years now , from the Pace days , yes , with Dave McHenry , big Cat , and I'm curious . Just to kind of kick us off is just like to set the stage of where you are from a season perspective Curious , like it's your off season and season Like where are you at right now ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so , honestly , my season starts next week . So basically , from January to , honestly , end of March is indoor season , um , and so , yeah , I'm getting ready to start my indoor indoor campaign . Um , a lot of the races indoors , just cause there's not a lot of , uh , indoor facilities on the West coast or on the East coast , so a lot of races are in Boston and New York , um , but I'm actually opening up next weekend in Seattle , cause there's an indoor track at university of Washington . Okay , so that'll be my first race .
Speaker 1Cool In Portland . Is there anywhere to train indoor there ? Is a university of Portland .
Speaker 2Yeah , there is that track . It's weird though , cause it's it's literally a circle , so you're kind of turning the entire time yeah , right , right um , but honestly the weather is really not that bad here .
Speaker 2Uh , we don't get a lot of snow , as you know , and I mean sometimes we'll get ice and and snow , but it's pretty rare , and so I really never had that many days where I can't train outside . Um , but I saying that we do like to go to somewhere warmer in the winter , like during January and February . So actually me going to Phoenix after my race , for that's kind of going to be my base camp , and so I just base out of there for January , february , and just cause it's 75 degrees and sunny every single day , so it was really hard to beat that . And as I'm racing , I like to be able to run faster in workouts , and it's just harder to do that when it's cold out .
Speaker 1Right , right , right , yeah , yeah . What's Phoenix like from like a trails perspective ?
Speaker 2It's actually really good yeah .
Speaker 1Softer surfaces .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's a huge , basically like a canal system , so the main canal that runs through Phoenix to Scottsdale . There's trails on the side of it , or like one wide trail on the side of it that's like crushed gravel .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2And so , and honestly , you can access it from a lot of places in Phoenix and it's pretty great . Yeah , yeah , yeah , it's nice training . And then , with Arizona State being there , we use their facility a lot for my harder track workouts and they're always very accommodating .
Speaker 1So yeah , nice Love that you got the keys . You got the keys to AAC .
Speaker 2I got the code . Yeah , okay , nice I got the code .
Speaker 1Yeah , okay , nice . So we got a season around the corner on the Beast Guard TV podcast where our mission is to inspire listeners or viewers , and you know through our conversation , hopefully , that they can pick up little anecdotes of inspiration , but also hopefully that inspiration is practical in the way that they can innovate their lives and , selfishly , I want to have the conversation with you to help me innovate my life as well , and so we've had an anchor question for each episode of season three and it is what is inspiring you these days ? What has been a source of inspiration ? It can be recently , as you've been ramping up towards , you know , the start of your season , or just like holistically over time . What's been a source of inspiration for you ?
Speaker 2a source of inspiration for you ? That's a really good question . I honestly draw a lot of inspiration from within my own self and I just genuinely want to be the best possible athlete I can be in my event , and so I feel like a lot of my own inspiration just comes from my journey and like kind of what I've been through and it's how I've overcome that um , and then to , like a lot of other athletes , just kind of paving the way of like a very non-traditional path to success , I think is really inspirational and kind of resonates a lot with with me yeah , I feel that where does that come from , that like intrinsic , you know , inspiration to want to be your best .
Speaker 1So you think that's something that , like growing up you were exposed to that and that's why how you have that or you're born with it .
Speaker 2I think , yeah , I think it's a little bit of like nature nurture . I think , yeah , part of it is just kind of my DNA just always kind of been the kid growing up that is trying to strive to be a perfectionist , like kind of at a fault sometimes . But then I think also like my parents really pushed me growing up , whether that was in school or sports , and I think they probably saw my potential before I could even see my potential and really made sure that I didn't settle for less , which I guess sometimes can seem like a little harsh , but they did it in a very loving way and it was , in a way that I think , really shaped me to be the athlete in person I am today .
Speaker 1Yeah , did you play other sports growing up ?
Speaker 2I did , yeah , I played lacrosse .
Speaker 1Okay , yeah , relax .
Speaker 2All right , I did . Yeah , I was pretty big on the East Coast . I grew up in Florida , so it was pretty big there and it was always funny because I would get in a lot of trouble , because I was just always the most aggressive on the field . Okay , and constantly Whacking fools out there , yeah yeah , and women's lacrosse is not a contact sport technically , like men's lacrosse , like men's lacrosse
Finding Inspiration and Athletic Roots
Speaker 2. You know , they were in the helmet , they were in the shirt and you can hit each other .
Speaker 1Yeah , and you can like check .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , body check yeah , and women lacrosse is not .
Speaker 2so it's full non-contact sport and there is checking , but there's very specific rules on when and how . Um , and a lot of times I definitely bend those rules and and was a little more aggressive , and I think that was some always remember my mom . After this one uh uh game that we had , I I think I got , honestly , probably a red card , and it was not even in like a malicious way , it's just like I was just so wanting to win that I wasn't willing to do anything . It took , yeah , um , and I think one of the coaches afterwards told me and my mom didn't tell me this until years later but one of the coaches afterwards is just like you need to talk to your daughter . She's way too aggressive . Like she really needs to tone it down . Oh , wow , and my mom was basically just like no , I'm not going to tone it down .
Speaker 2Like I'm going to let her do her thing . But yeah , so I started with lacrosse and honestly , that's what I was planning on doing in high school until I started just running cross country for general , staying in shape in the fall since lacrosse is a spring sport and long story short , just realized I was good at it and I liked it and I liked the fact that I could control the outcome . Like me solely could control the outcome , and I mean , I'm sure you understand this too is like you could have the best game of your life and you can , you know , try really , really hard and just play really , really well . But ultimately it's a team sport and it's got to be collective . So I really struggled with that in lacrosse and track and field was kind of that way of like OK , I can have the outcome I want by putting in effort .
Speaker 1Right , right right .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , your preparation can control the outcome .
Speaker 2Yeah . You hate to lose , I hate to lose , really hate to lose .
Speaker 1Like a decision of someone who really cannot stand losing .
Speaker 2Yeah , no .
Speaker 1Yeah , I feel that .
Speaker 2Which is probably something I should work on , you know .
Speaker 1Blessing and a curse . Yeah , blessing and a curse . Yeah , your mom's Jamaican . Blessing and curse . Yeah , your mom's Jamaican .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah . Yeah , her dad grew up in Kingston , but then he was , he was an orphan there , so then he left and moved to America I don't actually know when . On the specifics , but yeah , yeah , so she's part Jamaican .
Speaker 1Fellow Yachty .
Speaker 2Yeah , my dad was was born in Jamaica . Oh , awesome , yeah , so she's part .
Speaker 1Jamaican Fellow Yachty . Yeah , my dad was born in Jamaica .
Speaker 2Oh , awesome .
Speaker 1Yeah , we just went back , or I just went back over the summertime Actually it was me , my dad , brother and sister and so , yeah , we went back and stayed on . We stayed on the family , like in the family neighborhood in the community which is like the west part of the island , it's more of like the country part of Jamaica , it's in the Hanover Parish , in this place called Cousins Cove , and we still have like cousins , aunts , some uncles , who live like . They all basically live like clustered together in this like area . The area is actually called Big Yard , oh , cool , yeah , and so that was the inspiration of the name of the foundation and we all went back and stayed for a week at Big Yard , which typically that's rare for us , because growing up we used to um , like maybe we'd go stay at some of the resorts , you know , maybe in the grill , they would stay up in montego bay and then , like , spend a day or two with the family and they'd go back , you know , but this time we stayed all with the family and it's times have changed , so , like there's air conditioning and you know what I mean , like they renovated the homes and like are living comfortably , like back in the day , like when I was coming up it was a relatively rough .
Speaker 1You know it does not don't come from like great means from a wealth perspective , but I love Jamaica like bottom of my heart and family over there , whether they're family or not .
Speaker 1I treat you like family , you know . Take care of one another . I love that . Yeah , it's a beautiful place .
Speaker 2That's awesome . So how many times have you been there ? Then ? It sounds like you've been there quite a bit .
Speaker 1Quite a bit . Yeah , yeah , I probably couldn't count on two hands . Yeah , that's cool . Yeah , I , uh , I probably couldn't count on two hands . Yeah , yeah , so , um , over the past we went 2024 . Uh , and I think before that we were there in 22 , um 21 , like I've been over the last four years probably been three or four times , which is yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1And then my sister and dad just went back um a few weeks ago . Okay , so we're starting to like more frequently get back home , which is cool because you know , now that my sister's graduated and my brother's graduated , you know , we're siblings , are coming into adulthood and now we can , you know , have a little bit more control over our schedules and make those trips . But it's been really good to kind of reconnect .
Speaker 2That's awesome . Yeah , make those trips , but it's been really good to kind of reconnect . That's awesome place , yeah , just being immersed in that community and being family and 100 kind of seeing where you came from too it's awesome .
Speaker 1Have you ever been ?
Speaker 2no , never been . Yeah , I want to go you should check it out yeah , yeah , I know I'm like there's . I think there's something really special about kind of going back to places where , like , your heritage really stemmed from , so that's definitely on my list to go .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean especially with the track background .
Speaker 2Oh , yeah , totally .
Speaker 1And I mean we talked earlier about , like , how they love track and field over in Europe . Yeah , like Jamaica , oh yeah , oh yeah . Yeah , they are about their track , oh yeah , you know , know , like it's serious yeah and they really like watch , like , watch the meets , like we're watching oh yeah you know , and at the meets too .
Speaker 2It's , it's crazy , yeah , their culture around Jamaican sprint culture is just I mean , it's just legendary . It's just like produced so many , so many good athletes and obviously the best sprinter of all time has come from there , on both the men's and women's sides .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah , and but not as much distance though .
Speaker 2Yeah , they don't really have many distance runners . I mean , I'm just , I'm just thinking it's warm down there , it's just more conducive to people just running fast and , you know , not really pounding out 12 miles , 13 miles , and you know the Jamaican sign , so they're like let's get in , get out .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's real , that's real . Yeah , it's hot out there yeah and the those yams .
Speaker 1Those yams help your fast switching more definitely yeah um , yeah , that'd be cool for you to go go out there and like train with uh even I mean obviously there to go go out there and like train with uh even I mean obviously there's more sprinters out there but like I'll speed training for a day with the squad and they have that . That legendary coach down there who , uh , I forget his name , but he was , he was coach , he was , maybe he was Usain's coach . He was coach , he was , maybe he was Usain's coach . Then he , he was coaching in Lane Thompson for a while , but not anymore recently . And then and then Mommy Rocket coaching her , but I think they had split recently too . But like he's produced a lot of like great sprinters out there . But I mean I'm just I would love to go out there and like do a training session with them , just to be around them . You know , like the energy , like yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's cool . I think that's the coolest part about you know , when we go to meets over in Europe and they're more international than um meets over in america and just , yeah , just seeing different people from different countries and the jamaicans , honestly , they're always having a good time out there . They're always just really you can just tell they love what they do .
Speaker 2They're obviously very good at what they do and they work hard , but they're always having a good time yeah just playing music and dancing and just like I want to be a part of that yeah , yeah , no , that's cool .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I you know they're also , they're also putting in work . Oh , totally , yeah , the work is crazy be as good as they are .
Speaker 2Yeah , you have to .
Speaker 1You have to put in some serious work yeah , uh , we were talking earlier about um , like raising the awareness of the sport , and I watched a little bit of sprint oh yeah documentary and it showed some of their training over there and they talked about the coach and like the you know the environment that they're training in . Um , I think documentaries like that help the sport , like these storytelling aspects of things , but then also for us to get kind of that inside , look around , like the work that they're putting in and it's not pretty what they're training , like the places they're training at . You know the blocks are in like some old , like school , a high school track or something like it's not yeah , it's not glamorous no , definitely not .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's one thing about track and field is definitely not glamorous . I mean , I can't tell you how many , which probably shouldn't be saying this but like how many you know fences I've had to jump to get onto high school tracks and you know . Just like we don't have any facility
Training Methodology and Lactate Monitoring
Speaker 2at our beck and call wherever we go .
Speaker 2And , um , yeah , sometimes you just got to do with what you got and you know , a lot of the beauty , though , of track and field is like it's so simple , it's just running , and so you can really do it anywhere yeah um , but yeah , it's definitely not glamorous .
Speaker 2We're not flying private jets , we're , I mean , some of us . Obviously , the top dogs get paid really well , but you know , even compared to the top dogs of other sports , it's nothing . So , um , yeah , but I think there's just a common love for the sport and people . Obviously , I think the the sport being bigger and more awareness to it would be a great thing , but we don't really do it for that , like just do it because we just genuinely love it and and want to be the best .
Speaker 1So yeah , it's a beautiful sport . Yeah , it's a beautiful sport pure .
Speaker 2You know , just running we've been doing that for thousands and thousands of years yeah it's pretty nice yeah and now you're one of the best humans in the world .
Speaker 1Yeah , which is a cool thing to say um , what's your routine like right now from a like a daily routine ? Take me through . What a day yeah or uh , and this is like a loaded question , but I'm curious , like what a day looks like . But then if you could paint the picture in respect to a week , a month or even like a year , you know what I'm saying .
Speaker 2Like , take us in close of , like this is what a day looks like , and then kind of let me zoom out yeah , yeah , honestly , a lot of days are different for me , um , right now , just because we're kind of in pretty heavy training like this is , I mean , not as serious as I would say . May or june is when we're ramping up for the summer , but this is , we're're in pretty good training right now . So I'm in full , full training mode , which basically means , like today , for example , after this , I'll have a workout later and then we'll lift After that . I typically work lift on my hard workout days , but then , like tomorrow , for example , I'll have a shorter run in the morning , okay , and then I'll typically get some kind of treatment at least once a week .
Speaker 2For example , I'll have a shorter run in the morning , okay , and then I'll typically get some kind of treatment at least once a week . So tomorrow I'll have a massage , nice , and then I'll go back out . And I've been getting really into cycling lately , okay , and I'm just I run a little bit less miles than a typical person . In my event , I've just had a lot of history with injuries , so trying to limit the mileage and but still kind of work my heart and lungs and so , um , it's nice this week . So fortunately I get to cycle outside sometimes . I have to cycle inside .
Speaker 2But yeah , then I'll go back out for like an hour cycle okay and that's kind of like my easy day of just kind of 90 minutes total of just easy aerobic work , yeah . And then a week is typically I work out Monday , wednesday , friday , okay , and by workout I mean they're usually harder efforts . So Monday and Wednesdays are usually what we call threshold and tempo , and so it's kind of just sustaining a certain pace , um , for anywhere from four to six miles okay um same pace .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's what a threshold workout is yeah , same pace generally .
Speaker 2Um like not to bore you with the science no , no , let's get into the weeds here um I well . So I recently started using a lactate meter . You've you ever heard of lactate meter ?
Speaker 1How does that work ?
Speaker 2So it basically so you prick your finger and a dot of blood comes out and this machine measures your , the lactate in your blood Okay . And so it's a really good . I've done a lot of testing with Nike Research Lab and so I've kind of figured out my numbers of what is threshold research lab and so I've kind of figured out my numbers of what is threshold . So essentially , threshold is , um , when you can , when you're producing or you're clearing as much lactate as you're producing .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2So you're not going into an anaerobic state , you're staying very aerobic and throwing a lot of like words science-y words at you , but and so that's the idea of my Monday Wednesday workouts is staying in this aerobic threshold zone and you can just get huge , huge benefits from staying in the zone and it's relatively safe And- .
Speaker 2Because if you go over into anaerobic then you're like yeah , because you're mostly in the start , yeah , yeah , and that type of workout I'll typically do once a week . So those are my over into anaerobic . Then you're like , yeah , because you're most in start , yeah , yeah , and those and that that time type of workout I'll typically do once a week . So those are my fridays , yep , um , but you , yeah . So with the amount of of work I do throughout a week , I really want to control my , my aerobic threshold days , um , and that way I don't put my state , put myself in a state of , you know , not recovering enough , um , and being too fatigued , going into a really hard session on a Friday .
Speaker 1Gotcha . So Monday , Wednesday threshold so Monday , Wednesday threshold . And what would ? What's an example of like .
Speaker 2Like today , I'll have um four or three times one and a half miles at a time with like 60 seconds rest . So I'll do . I'll go out to nike and there's a good one and a half mile um trail out there . Oh yeah , on the bark chips , no , no no , no , the hollister , like the kind of it's , it's like across the campus oh , okay , I haven't ran that one , um , anyways it's .
Speaker 2It's a perfect one and a half mile loop and it's more firm . It's like crushed gravel , but it's firmer . Okay one , anyways , it's a perfect one and a half mile loop and it's more firm it's like crushed gravel , but it's firmer , Okay gotcha , and so it's perfect to be able to do that , so I'll do that today .
Speaker 1What pace keeps you in aerobic state ? That's ?
Speaker 2the thing is like your lactate it depends on so many things .
Speaker 1Oh , because you're using that meter .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so I'm really I'm yeah . So , like some days , you know , like on Monday , we use the meter and I was probably running 515 pace Because I would , but that's not always the case though . You know some like today it could be , since they're longer reps . Monday was a little bit shorter reps , okay , some like today it could be , since they're longer reps . Monday was a little bit shorter reps , okay , today it could be anywhere from , I'm going to say , 530 to 545 , I would say Got you , got you .
Speaker 1And Monday can be faster because maybe your lactate isn't as high . So you can gauge based on this you go a little bit faster .
Speaker 2Right .
Speaker 1By Wednesday . You're a little bit fatigued , maybe from the Totally yeah .
Speaker 2And so it's just nice to have that kind of real-time data and real-time yeah , just being able to see exactly how you're responding to what you're doing in the moment and being able to be like , oh , our lactate's really low today , like we can run faster , or oh , it's really high today . We need to , you know , back off .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And it's just been , I think I've had a lot of periods of overtraining , which is why I've had so many injuries , periods of overtraining , which is why I've had so many injuries , and so we're really trying to use this meter and to just make sure we're . You know , we're staying controlled on these days and obviously there's some days we let it rip , but a lot of , yes , we really try and control the effort .
Speaker 1That's the hardest thing .
Speaker 2It is yeah .
Speaker 1It's like not going too hard . That's what , that's how . It was always the issue that I would run into , and even , maybe even today even though I'm not , you know , competing professionally but when I was like injuries would come as a result of going too hard and not giving , not listening to my body when my body's saying like yo , I'm sore , yeah , I am like hurting , and it's like there's such a fine line between , okay , you're sore , push through that shit , because that's going to get you , that's going to move the threshold , that's going to move the needle , yeah , but then , right on the other side of that fine line , is all , right , tried to tell you .
Speaker 2Now I'm about to grab this hamstring and you're gonna sit your ass down yep you know , oh yeah , I've had plenty of those of you know , my body is telling me one thing over and over again and it's like , okay , you won't listen , then I'll make you listen and then I'll send you know . Yeah , it's a full-blown injury .
Speaker 2So yeah yeah it's , it's tough . It's like I think it's still a learning game for me , just figuring out , like you said , exactly how hard you can push without going over that line , what my body can respond to and stay healthy , but then also making sure that I am training hard enough to be able to run . You know , with the best in the world you have to do some really hard things .
Speaker 1No doubt , no doubt , yeah , and I like .
Speaker 1Now there's so much innovation around sports science where you can actually like track the you know your , your states , your aerobic or anaerobic states , or your lactate , or like track the you know your , your states , your aerobic or anaerobic states , or your lactate , um , or like your readiness score , like I wear this , or ring , oh yeah , it's , it's cool , but you got the Apple watch , you got all these different wearables that like track the state that you're in and you could wake up and check like a number and you know , supposedly it's telling you basically what you're capable of that day or which how you should be thinking about your day , um , which I love .
Speaker 1Like when we there was times where we were like ramping up and building our foundation of fitness . Like early in our off season training , we used to train out to out of Nike as well , with my trainer , keith , uh , and some days he would have us do our running , uh , with our , our heart rate , like heart rate monitor okay and so we'd like strap on a catapult and then he would watch it on the on the computer .
Speaker 1And maybe we're doing like , uh , 40 yard tempos or something , and we're going down , back , down , back , and then when you get there your heart rate gets up to I don't know , 14 , 145 . And it's like you can't go on your next rep until you come down to 130 .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And then we're doing a certain level of reps which you know you're able to kind of calibrate , like what you can do in those moments . But it's kind of similar to what you're doing with the lactate too . It's like when you get the prick and you get a number and it's like , okay , this level is too high , let's let's go a little bit slower . Or it's too low , like let's pick it up .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , just having , yeah , that real time information , cause that's another thing .
Speaker 2Heart rate , like it , can really vary , depend on , you know , if it's hot outside if you're not hydrated , like and that's lactate's the same thing , it's , sometimes it's even it can be with heart rate too , is like if you have a lot of clothes on , sometimes your heart can just be elevated in that way and yeah , so you kind of it's . You know the it's nice to have all this information and science , but you also , I think , which this is something that obviously I need to get better at but like your own internal dialogue and your own , and like that's going to be the best indicator , that's going to be your north star and um , sometimes you fail to listen to that , um , but I think you know at the same time , like it's not . You know the science isn't all perfect and and a lot of times it's just kind of like how you feel .
Speaker 1So it's , real .
Speaker 2But then you have to also think about you know , if you do feel a certain way , maybe you should be listening to that , and that's obviously that's the hard part
Meditation and Mental Performance
Speaker 2.
Speaker 1Yeah , I have a good friend too . His name's Brian Peters . He was on the podcast in season one but we played together with the Texans the podcast in season one but we played together with the Texans and he's gotten big into breath performance and he'll do the sauna and cold plunge stuff and he always says that like in our society and as humans we've gotten further and further away from feeling and really like feeling how our body feels and like being able to tune into that , because so often we're just like paying attention to these external stimuli . You know , whether it's your phone or this screen or this conversation or you're driving or whatever , you're like paying attention . Your brain's paying attention to the external . Very rarely are you sitting there and just like feeling how you're feeling .
Speaker 2So true .
Speaker 1And that's like he talks about that , because with the breath , a lot of it is like it's your mind and it's your focus . And then it's when you're in a sauna , when you're in a cold plunge . You're in these very uncomfortable states which you have no choice but to listen to how your body feels , and like you're forcing like back into that place of like okay , how is my body feeling right now in this point of like discomfort ? So then when you step out into the world , you actually are kind of more attuned to be able to listen .
Speaker 2Yeah , I love that . Like I think , like to go along with that , like I think meditation also is one of those things where you're just you're just sitting with you , you know your body and your mind and like I've tried to really get into that recently and I think it's just you just do like a few minutes of that a day and it just can really change the rest of your day , like the way , yeah , like you said , like you go about your day and , um , yeah , it can be really powerful . The mind is so powerful so powerful so yeah I've gotten into med .
Speaker 1I got into meditation in 2024 nice yeah , for the first time I took uh , I took a trip to india oh wow , you're like fully immersed .
Speaker 2Oh , I was awesome .
Speaker 1I was in it , yeah yeah , I was in it fully . I went to , uh , I flew into new delhi and then I went up to Rishikesh , which is like north , like foothills of the Himalayas and like the . Was that like a guided ?
Speaker 2meditation that you were doing , or Guided is probably like overstated .
Speaker 1Like there was a program Okay , I stayed at an ashram , okay , which is essentially like in the Hindu religion , like in Ashram , is a place where , like the guru or , yeah , like the leader maybe has like his , it's like a school and so his devotees , the devotees go and then it's yoga , it's meditation . There's libraries , you know the devotees go and then you're , it's yoga , it's meditation , it's a lot , there's libraries , you know you study , and so it was like basically a curriculum . It was just like a daily schedule that would start at the morning , bell would ring at 5am and then , you know , meditation start at 5.15 and you just you go into the yoga room and it's like it's dark at that time . You just walk in the dark and like all these people like walking into this , this yoga hall , and like I showed up , and so when I say guided is overstated , like my first morning , you know it was bell and I'm like you know , in this strange place I haven't been before Just got in like the night before and like a walk out and then like just follow the people that I see and everybody's , you know it's early in the morning , so everybody's kind of just like dragging and I get into the yoga hall and there's a guy in the front of this space , just like in lotus , just sitting there on a pillow and then , like we all get in , like I don't know , I maybe like 5 , 20 he like says the first words you know , everybody's been sitting there in silence .
Speaker 1He's just like close your eyes . And yeah , just close your eyes , like that was the extent of the guidance . You know like , okay , what do I do now ? Yeah , and maybe it was you know a chant or something to like get into it . And then it was just like sit for an hour .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh An hour .
Speaker 1Well , sit 515 to 615 . So , depending on when you got in there and people , you know , it was like it was loose enough where , like I can really I can't do the Lotus . Especially back then I was like my hips are so tired . Same , yeah , and so , uh , like some , I would like I was leaning back against the wall and some people would like choose to just like lay down with a pillow or whatever , and um , but yeah , so anywhere from probably like 45 minutes , wow , and I mean very uncomfortable , very uncomfortable . Oh yeah , I was like , can you do it for like a full hour ? Yeah , we're like , yeah , I went until they told me to open my eyes .
Speaker 1That's impressive you know that's a long time and it's easier with a groove yeah , because everybody else in there is doing the same thing . Um , but yeah , it was difficult but it got . It got easier over the nine days . It definitely was not nowhere near expert then , and still am not now , but I started to learn just techniques because we were doing meditation . It was twice a day , those like hour long bouts , but then there was also yoga .
Speaker 1After the morning meditation , nice , and then there was an evening yoga as well , and then in the middle of the day there were , there was like a library study time and like these facilitated lectures and so you could go and learn from these people . Uh , you know the gurus , as they would be called , uh , and like they're explaining to you the reason behind the meditation and the yoga and like how it connects to the scripture and how you're like leading your life morally and how it all kind of comes back together . And you know , I came out of it like realizing that the whole point of meditation is really about like concentration and being able to like focus on , close your eyes and focus on one thing . Uh , yeah , for as long as you know you can , for that hour , can you just think about one thing , because then I mean that is like practice , it's like practicing your mind control , it's like your threshold right .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , totally yeah , cause I mean a lot of . I can't , I don't even want to like butcher it , but I don't know how many thoughts that we have a day , and sometimes you know they're a little sporadic and being able to just silence not , it's not only about silencing your mind , but just you being able to like quiet it and kind of letting thoughts come and go and just , yeah , like you said , focus on one thing . So it's incredibly hard , yeah , but it's powerful though at the same time 100 when you're doing your meditations .
Speaker 1Now , what is ? Do you ? Are you ? Do you have a technique ?
Speaker 2um , I usually like say it's's usually sometimes I'll say like a mantra oh , nice yeah . I feel like if I'm totally silent in my head , I feel like that's when I let my mind just go , so I'm thinking about what I have to do today and whatever . So , yeah , sometimes I'll stick to it . I think that's easier for me to stick to a mantra no-transcript .
Speaker 1There was a time I still do it daily as part of my daily regimen , but I used to like , when I first got back , I was really fearful of . Well , when I got back , I felt like I was in a good place , I had this peace of mind and felt like I was kind of trending towards like being able to control my mind better and I was fearful to lose that . You know , because , like it's a remote . I was in a remote place where there's not a whole lot of like external stimuli , you know , not a lot reaching you . You know , put the phone down and then you're not no more than there's nothing else to focus on except like yourself . And then to uh , to come back and like I was worried about distractions and stuff . So I would start .
Speaker 1I started off meditating with , with uh , an alarm and so like I'm going to go for 30 minutes today or 20 minutes today , and then , uh , I realized that after a while , like I was just waiting for the alarm
Olympic Trials and Personal Best
Speaker 1to sound , so I felt like it wasn't the best use of the time . So , since I've been going more off of feel , just like I'm just going to sit until I feel like it's time to get up and try to lock in as much as I can During that time . But I like the mantra thing . I think that's a great way to not just get into it , but even just like practice too .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , no , totally . Sometimes it's hard to just be in total silence , so mantra kind of allows you to focus on something .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , and 2024 was a roller coaster of a year for you . Congratulations on the PR .
Speaker 2Thank you , yeah , yeah 356 . Yeah , yeah , that's crazy , that's fast . Yeah .
Speaker 1Two second PR .
Speaker 2I know , yeah , it's such a weird thing because it just had to happen at the Olympic trials and I got fourth there and obviously top three make a team . It's such a weird thing because it just had to happen at the Olympic trials and I got fourth there and obviously top three make a team . So it was one of those weird mind things where I want to be happy with it , I want to be proud of myself and I am Now on the other side of it . I am , but in the moment it was honestly very devastating and yeah , to miss out on a lifelong dream of of becoming an olympian is , yeah , it's tough .
Speaker 2Um , and so , yeah , it was just such a weird sensation to look up at the board and see , obviously I knew I got fourth at that point , but like I had no idea how fast I ran and I saw how fast and I was like , so how does number seven all-time in the US not make you know , the Olympic team ? It was just like it was just a year where everyone was just firing on all cylinders . Yeah , and just it just happens . And um , yeah , three people were better than me that day and that's just kind of the reality of it . But , um , I think you know , with the time I had with the lead up to the Olympic trials cause , I was injured for most of the year . Like I was proud of that and like I walked away with , like I did everything in my power to be 100% ready on that day and I was and I ran the best race in my life . Um , it just wasn't enough on that particular day .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , you were . You had an injury earlier on in the year , so your ramp-up period was more accelerated than yeah , yeah , it was like 10 weeks . Versus like .
Speaker 2Versus I mean versus months , honestly .
Speaker 2Right , right , right is months honestly right , um , and I was training a bit in october , november , december , but then I had to take , like you know , three . After that I had an injury in january , had to take , and it was one of those it was a weird thing where it wasn't really showing up on an mri , yeah , but so I would go back to training and I'm like it still really hurts . We would , you know , do that for a week , I'll get another mri , and so it didn't take until three MRIs , so it was like that just prolonged the recovery process , um , and then from there I had to take five weeks completely off , um , and then , you know , you can't just jump right back into training , so then it's a slow ramp up . So I said so , I say I had , you know , I think it was like maybe 10 or 11 weeks of like full training before , yeah , which is really tough when no one else had that you know when you're competing against them and I think I'm also someone who really benefits from racing .
Speaker 2Honestly , I get way better with racing . I've kind of was like that in college and my best years have always been like that . Um , and I raced , I think , three times before the Olympic trials , which is not like I would have you know race probably at least 10 times .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , so it was . It was tough Like it's it's and it's even more like we're talking about the mind like it's tough to be able to go to the start line and and I think I did as much like mental work as I possibly could before- that to just to be like it doesn't matter what happened , like you , you know , can make this team and you're going to make it .
Speaker 2And I was telling myself this on the start line and , um , I mean , yeah , like I think that alone I can walk away and be really proud of , because I honestly had no business standing on that start line being like I'm gonna make this team . With the lead up I had right , but I ran . I feel like I ran a race that that showed that I felt confident enough to make the team yeah and for that . Like I'm , I'm just very proud of myself for that .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , you got to think about like to have that accelerated lead up time in 10 weeks versus like months , and then you still end up going near PR by you know , by so much . It's like I don't know . It probably was somewhat the moment , but then also maybe that that rest potentially helped too , like to get to you know , get you right , get you ready .
Speaker 2Totally yeah . I mean that my body was obviously telling me I was doing too much by , you know , this time last year , which is why I started having an injury . But yeah , I think , yeah , at the same time , who knows , if I wouldn't have what would have happened ? But I think also too , like I just am curious , if I would have had a full season , where also I could have been at too .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , but that's such a that's such a interesting thing about track and field or , I guess , any any sport . But , like in football , you can have your best individual game and the team and your team loses , like we were talking about earlier . But somehow I feel like that's a little bit different than like you running your fastest race and like , but you , you lose the race , but you won yourself . You know what I mean . Like , how do you deal with the ?
Speaker 2I don't know just that , like both sides of that yeah you know like doing your best , but then you know the outcome not being what you want it to be yeah , and I think you think you know , being an individual sport , it's kind of like I only really have myself to blame in those moments and I think that's that is like the hardest thing is not putting placing blame on myself specifically for that race , because I did everything I could have done leading up to it and I ran the race the way I would have ran it , you know .
Speaker 2And so , um , yeah , that's the hardest part is like it's just you out there , it's literally just you and so , and it's not even your coach isn't even out there with you , like your training partner is not even out there with you . It's just you , um and so when you and it's your name with your result and it's just very like black and white , you know you either ran , you either won the race or you didn't . And yeah , sometimes it's kind of tough because I feel like a lot of those fingers get placed back on you and that's just kind of like an internal thing with me of you know , what could I have done differently ? Should I listen to my body ?
Speaker 2on this day and and stop the workout short , or you know , did I run this workout hard enough and so , yeah , yeah , it's a . It's a tough mental game of trying to pick yourself back up when things don't go your way .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2And it's like you have to ask yourself those questions , right , because that's what has led to your greatness up to this point and that's what will continue to lead to your greatness , but then also being able to give yourself the grace in those moments too , exactly yeah , which is , I think , why you need to have a good community around you , and I feel like I heavily , heavily relied on my community , especially last year , um , because in those moments when you're feeling down , I think they're the ones that pick you back up and kind of remind you of the bigger picture and make you feel like , for lack of a better term , better Um , and so , yeah , I think that is honestly , I couldn't do it without the community I have around me , the bee , I don't know what I would do .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , is it ever difficult to listen to your community ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1For me like I don't know . Sometimes it's easy for me to just like kind words or words of affirmation that would just fall on deaf ears .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1How do you , how do you kind of like , orient yourself to listen when they're speaking to you ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , I think the biggest thing is these people mean well , and they love you and they don't care whether I got first or last , you know , and like I'll wake up tomorrow and they're still going to love me because of me as a person and not me as an athlete , um , but like you're so right , I think , and there was moments when you're they're just like you ran so well and you PR and you all these nice things , but , but I'm also be like my mind just goes , but for what ?
Speaker 2Like I didn't meet the team team , like that was my main goal , and so sometimes when I hear these things , I'm like I just yeah , like you said , they just go to deaf ears , like I just kind of go in one ear and out the other , right , um , but I think , you know , like I said , going back to , they mean well , and and sometimes people just don't know the best thing to say in that situation , because you know , I've been in that position too , where something doesn't go someone's way and you're like I don't know what to say to you to make you feel better , and they probably don't either . But yeah , just knowing that whatever they are trying to say to me is out of love , and it's nothing but that .
Speaker 1It's always good to feel loved .
Speaker 2Yeah , always it is the best feeling .
Speaker 1Your team just went out to Boulder and you vowed to stay here . You decided to stay here in Portland . Why do you love Portland so much ?
Speaker 2I kind of like I was talking about earlier , I just built a really good community here and I value that probably more than anything . Like , the people in my life are my priority and so , yeah , I think I've really built something special
Portland Roots and Independent Training
Speaker 2here and something that maybe could be recreated in Boulder . But you know , I don't ever know , but I just didn't , I don't want to take that for granted and I don't want to give something up that I don't want to give up and and I do love it here in Portland . I think this is . It's such a unique city . I like the size , a lot of it . Like , I think , for me and my fiance , we really like to spend time outdoors and this is just the perfect playground for that , you know . And um , the weather's pretty mild . I mean , obviously we get a lot of rain , but in terms of ultra cold weather , ultra hot weather , like we don't get that . So I'm like that's great for training .
Speaker 2And , um , there was a shift basically last March , where I kind of let Craig take over my training because I was just getting hurt a lot and he's known me since I was 18 . And he's seen me go through my college coach , my first professional coach , and then my other professional coach that I just left and knows me really well . I mean , he sees me every single day , he sees how I respond to different things , and he's also a runner himself too . So I think that helps a lot . He has much more of a background , and so we kind of came up with this game plan of let's try this new system , which is kind of what I'm doing now , which is what I was explaining to you earlier .
Speaker 1Wednesday , Friday .
Speaker 2Yeah , and in measuring it with a lactate meter and just being a lot more measured with things , and I think a lot of times I got into this overtraining route or overtraining stint and that would just leave me injured a lot and it's not enjoyable when you're injured and I just was really struggling and marched with like I guess I just don't really like this sport anymore .
Speaker 2I just don't feel like this is something that I want to do . I really had to like kind of find my why of why I do this sport and I think I had a lot of realizations and I think , you know , now I'm kind of after my season was over . Then I was kind of implementing all those realizations I had and and now I am like it's just so much happier and I'm happier in my life , which makes me happier with running . I'm enjoying running again . Um , it's become , you know , something I look forward to and yeah , craig , my fiance is not my coach and we get to just have this freedom to do the things that make me the best . But then also do things like that make this enjoyable , like you know , going to Phoenix , like I love going to training camps .
Speaker 2I think it's fun to just go for , you know , a month and just really focus and dial in , yeah , and , and also just give me a change of scenery , like we were in in flagstaff all of november and I absolutely love flagstaff , arizona , and that's high altitude .
Speaker 2So I'll do that two to three times a year . High altitude training , um , and , yeah , I can , I can do all those things now and I can race the races I want to raise and , and I think you know the beauty of having a team is having people to do the hard , uncurdy things with every day and and I really , really love that . Like I was on two teams where I made best friends , like people that will be in my life forever , um , but at the same time , you kind of lose your individuality a little bit when being on a team , cause you just can't the coach can't write specific training for everyone in Europe every single day , right , and I think I'm just at a point in my career where I just really need that highly individualized training and so yeah , yeah , that's where I'm at now .
Speaker 1So it's exciting . Yeah , that's exciting . I mean there's a lot of change in your life happening now , but to be able to maintain the consistency of you know the place that you call home obviously your community and to have Craig here and you know Portland is also , or Oregon's , a place that embraces running , as well . It is yeah , right and uh . One of my favorite places to uh to watch a track meet is hayward field .
Speaker 2You know , like track town , there is just an energy that is different out there yeah , yeah , it's nice and I think running is , for me , a huge part of my life . It's even just from my day to day . It's a huge part of what I do . But I also really value my life outside of running and , like I was saying earlier , I think I worked really hard to build that here and to make sure that I'm a holistic person and I'm happy off the track . So then when I step on the track , then I can be my best self .
Speaker 1Right , Right . It's that positive attitude that you step on the starting line with at trials last year . You know that doesn't come from nowhere .
Speaker 1It stems from a place of like being in a consistently positive mindset . I think I like the idea of like structuring training in different places . You're talking about you'd spend a month in Flagstaff and then Phoenix and then you know wherever next year . Is there ever a time where , instead of saying I'm going to let the geography or the place make the informed decision maybe it's an athlete that I really enjoy training with or like does that ever happen ? Where you're like yo , there's this runner out in Phoenix or out in Houston or Austin , and like we're just going to link up for a week and like do our workouts together . Yeah , would that ever happen ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean I haven't . I haven't up to this point , obviously , cause I was on teams before this , but no , that could totally be like I . I have a good friend who is also a really great runner in Boulder actually , and so that can be a place where I would see myself going and doing altitude training camp . Actually , when I was in Flagstaff , there's another athlete there that I did overlap with and did some workouts with , and so , yeah , and Flagstaff's honestly the best place for that , because a lot of distance runners go there to train . But even when I'm in Phoenix , there's a couple of girls that have also reached out to me saying that they're going to be there too , and so it's nice . And Nike is done a lot of really good work this summer and kind of transforming their teams , and so they're creating hubs at various locations . So Park City , flagstaff and Eugene are the three hubs .
Speaker 1Okay , eugene are the three hub .
Speaker 2And so , basically , you know , cause they have a lot of athletes that aren't on like official teams , um , and they're kind of trying to create this network of you . Want to go to park city for a month and train , like we have a coach here who will also , you know , get you situated with track access and gym access . You have also people here that train here full time . You can hop into workouts if it , you know , deems fit and if the coach allows that . And so it's been really cool , because I think the scariest thing for me going on my own was that I wasn't going to have a team and I wasn't going to have training partners around me . And now , with kind of this new transition for Nike into making these network , uh , training hubs , it's definitely more conducive to being on my own yeah , that's a great role for nike to play oh it's so cool , yeah , and they're just really building out , yeah , flagstaff .
Speaker 2They're starting ground on a lot of facilities already have at um in park city , but um , it's exciting and so they'll have these . They have their three coaches still in these various locations , but it's kind of more of they're just . I think they're just making room for the athlete that doesn't fit into this box of wanting to train on this team in this specific place . And I just really appreciate that because I think a lot they've learned a lot . They've learned a lot in the past few years and they have a lot of their best athletes not in training groups and they realize sometimes people just need to feel really confident in their situation and not trying to , you know , fit sometimes fit into a situation when you know a sponsor wants you to but it doesn't feel like the best fit for you .
Speaker 1Right , right , yeah . And finding a way to support the athletes still , even if they can't be on a team and you know they're still obviously outfitted with the merch . But how do you support their performance if you're not funding the team and the coach and all these things ? But creating a network of runners and coaches and places where there is some optionality , um , or where the you know where you can go and train and live and find that balance . I think that's also a trend of like you know more and more our generation and younger generations and thinking about the balance of like work slash sport and life outside of work slash sport . And so what city , what place , what setup is most conducive to that balance ? And then you know , for Nike , like , for whatever brand stepping in , like how can I support this ? You know ? New wave of athleteism .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , so it's been really exciting of athlete is important yeah , yeah , so it's , it's been really exciting . And , um , I mean , nike is already such like an , like you know , innovative brand and they're always at the head of the curve . And , um , we had a distance summit , you know , a couple of weeks ago where they invited all North American distance runners and they're just like we're talking to us when I hear what you know , concerns we have or , um , things that you know we feel like we need and how they can support us . And um , yeah , it just feels good to be sponsored by a brand that is interested in you succeeding , you know , obviously on the track but , like you know , in your own life , and and you being able to create what you feel like you need to succeed .
Speaker 1Yeah , when I was doing my research , I saw there was a runner that's sponsored by Lululemon .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah .
Speaker 1It looked like they're one of your homies too . You guys did a race together .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's the athlete that I did some workouts with in Flagstaff . Okay .
Speaker 1What's her name ? Nikki .
Speaker 2That I did some workouts with in .
Speaker 1Flagstaff . Okay , what's her name ? Nikki .
Speaker 2Hiltz yeah , nikki Hiltz yeah .
Speaker 1Hiltz yeah , yeah , yeah , swag too Like love the content .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1You've been putting out great content too .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm trying to get better at it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I like the Running in the Rain , asmr , yeah that was good , yeah , thank you .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , I think , uh , you know , from not only a like individual , from individual athlete standpoint , it's great for fans to be able to like see the work that you're doing and , kind of , you know , giving them a peek behind the curtain , but also for the sport too . Yeah , you know , because so many of us are just talking about like think , think we're runners , or like want to be runners , or you know we're runners in our own respect . You know my 420 miles , which is like less than a month and a half of work for you . But then to be able to see like how you're doing it and how Nikki was right is running the hills and , uh , the real that they put together was a , it was a week long and it was like all the mileage throughout the week I know that's like oh , like whoa .
Speaker 2Okay , yeah , they run a lot killing it , killing it .
Speaker 1So no , I've been loving the concert yeah , cool , thank you .
Speaker 2I appreciate that . I actually , um , one of my friends is helping me do that right now and so just trying to . I I am not an instagram person at all , like , I just really don't like having to do it , but I feel like people do like it and people resonate with it and I think one of my big things is is storytelling and being able to give people an insight into like who I am and so yeah just being able to , yeah , do that in creative way of things off on track , but then also off track too .
Speaker 2So yeah
Looking Forward to 2025
Speaker 2stay tuned for some more content .
Speaker 1My right come on , hey . Vscar tv is the home of high quality content . Yeah , so best believe , rb over here is gonna whip up some reels for us , heck yeah , love that .
Speaker 1Let's play a little game . You can look into this camera right here , okay . And what should this be ? Tell the audience anything that you , the thing that you just you want to get off your chest , just something that you just want to tell somebody who's listening to this podcast right now or watching this podcast right now . What would you tell them ? It could be inspirational . It could be .
Speaker 2Okay , I would say the biggest thing that I want to tell someone is to be your biggest advocate . I think I've learned that throughout my career that no one's going to advocate for you . Well , some people will , but you know you're going to be your biggest advocate , meaning like you need to stand up for what you want . You believe , um , where you want to to go , and yeah , and do that .
Speaker 1Yeah , that was great . That was great . What are you looking forward to 2025 ?
Speaker 2I'm looking forward to racing more , being healthy . I'm looking forward to starting to plan a wedding . Looking forward to that , let's go congratulations again , dude yeah , um what's it like ?
Speaker 2it's gonna be here in portland , oh yeah , not until fall 2026 , but I want to make the process fun and enjoyable and I'm gonna plan it myself . So I want to start the process fun and enjoyable and I'm going to plan it myself . So I want to start planning , like you're giving yourself some good runway . I'm getting myself some really good runway . We're not going to be stressed and everything is going to be exactly how I want it to be .
Speaker 1Beautiful .
Speaker 2Um , but yeah , I'm looking forward to that . Um , looking forward to more travel to new places . Hopefully that means , you know , japan , tokyo later this year where the world championships are . What else am I looking forward to ? Yeah , I mean , that's kind of it . I think you know , being here , being in Portland , I think I definitely one goal of mine this year is to really try and get involved in more , just like the general running community in Portland , and so , luckily , with Tracklandia here with Jeff I don't know if you know Jeff Merrill , but he does a lot of Tracklandia which is kind of more Portland running community and it's just like , yeah , it's a really very niche but also very , very welcoming and great community , and so I want to be more involved in that and just , you know , be able to . I think that's the beauty about what we do is we're so accessible to just the average person , and I love that about the sport and so being able to give back in that way .
Speaker 1Dope . Yeah , can you do ? The gym team 5K'll run on the blood we'll see , we'll see that's .
Speaker 2That's a hard , that's a hard time of the year right in the yeah too close , yeah too close , yeah sometimes I'm like that's like peak that's later yeah , you say we'll say , but maybe we'll , yeah , we'll see uh dead stock run club yes , that's shout out to ian williams .
Speaker 1Uh , he was actually the first episode oh nice of season three yeah , uh . So shout out to ian and dead stock run club yeah , even that .
Speaker 2If , like hey , if you're watching this , you want to do a , you know a fun run with me and like meet up for a run , like join a weeknight run club activity , whatever , I'm down for it , so hell yeah , yeah , perfect .
Speaker 1Well , I'm looking forward to uh folks being able to listen and watch this episode these car tv , because it's been very inspiring for me . It's cool to hear about your story and everything that uh is going on in your life right now . It's very exciting times with the change , but also the commitment to some consistency here in Portland and you know , with Craig coaching and everything that you've learned over the last few years in your professional career has been packed with a lot of lessons that I'm excited to . I'm excited for you , you know , as you continue to learn and feel your body and listen to your body and all those things . So I wish you the best of luck .
Speaker 1And we'll be rooting for you .
Speaker 2Yeah , thank you . Thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Of course it's another episode of Beast Guard TV Peace .
Speaker 2See ya .