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Aaron Cooper on Designing Nike's for Lebron James and Serena Williams | B Scar TV Podcast
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We'll just continue. When you ran your sub 60, were you in a uniform?
Speaker 2:Did you have a full body suit? Did you have the full body? Yeah, hood, no, I just had just what I work out in, yeah, but I did get spikes. You got spikes, yeah, okay, it was like a little kid process looking for them and I mean I was online to you know, different than when I was growing up, but right, um, but I looked online, I was kind of searching, you know what looked cool, did a little bit of reviews, kind of what you know seemed like they would actually be functional, um, high performance, uh, worth wearing, give me a little bit of an edge. And I saw these cleats that happened to be Nike. It looked really cool, innovative, like state-of-the-art, cutting edge. Read the reviews Sure enough, they were, like, talked about as like the best Okay. So I was sold, bought them and I was all excited to get them in the mail.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Show up on the doorstep, I'm like, oh, they're here. You know, take them up to my office, undo the package and then open them up. And it was like back to when I was like 10. Oh man, oh man, I mean, I did everything but smell them, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the materials, materials to tell, like everything. And I was like, oh, I got it. Like now you want to put them on, but there's spikes, like what I'm going to do, put them on my house and there. But I wanted to like run down the, the hallway. You know, like um, when I was growing up, like at the, at the store and buying, like you just want a footlocker or something, you just run up and down the store and they're like, oh yeah, these are the ones. Get the basketball shoes like make sure they squeak, jump higher, like exactly, and uh. And so when I took him to the track at grant high school, put him on and you're like okay, okay yeah, you know, and he's like it gives you that.
Speaker 2:You know, kobe used to say it. Well, he said it in our first meeting hey, look, you know, look good, feel good, play good, just give me something that you know looks good. And, um, he then became a big convert in terms of uh, no, you know, truly believing in the millimeters. Yeah, my whole saying is the millimeters matter, right, um, and uh, yeah. So those, those spikes I gave me that, I think you know, certainly I do believe in, uh, in the lab and what, um, you know, the industry can do for you know, augmentation, um, and so I do think they gave me a little bit of a performance edge. But for sure, psychologically, yeah, I felt the snap, I felt the bounce, it felt, yeah, just, yeah, I was even, you didn't have to move it. And all of a sudden, you're like, yeah, you know, it's like when you get suited up right, like right, you just you kind of.
Speaker 2:It's that transformation we talked about a lot with athletes and I would go through it in my, um, different parts of my career and it'd be fun to hear from you. But, like you know, you go to, you drive to the you know stadium. You're starting to kind of mentally kind of prepare, uh, and then that process of then suiting up and what you do in that and during that time before you even get to the tunnel, and then there's a tunnel transformation and the first time you get out to the field and it's interesting the difference between high school, college and pro. Yeah, I've talked a lot of athletes about, because I've had a relationship with athletes all the way through.
Speaker 1:I'd love to hear your. Well, I think what makes that moment so special is all the work that you did leading up to actually putting those spikes on Cause. That, like that, becomes the reward in itself is like damn, I'm here. You know, it was like when you go in the locker room and you put the game jersey on for the first time and you've been busting your ass all offseason, all training camp. Okay, game one. This is what I've trained for.
Speaker 2:We're here now.
Speaker 1:That becomes the reward in itself. I didn't think of that. The fresh spikes. You only put the spikes.
Speaker 2:You have your race socks and you're training the spikes. I've never worn them before. I've never worn spikes in my life.
Speaker 1:This first time with spikes period. Oh bro, yeah, yeah, wow, you have a good point.
Speaker 2:I envy that you got that experience so recently. Yeah, at 54, like like. That's another thing about why, like the sub 60, like when is the last time you did something for the first time? When is the last time you did something for the first time? And we do like we get into these routines, our daily routines. People, you know, whenever I do any mentoring or helping people at work, get out of. You know, like these ruts they're in like park your car somewhere else when you get to work, park your car somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, walk from the other side of the street or walk from, like, just take a different route, amazing what you'll see. Yeah, amazing what you'll experience. You know just that little bit of uh right, take yourself out of, like you know, the rut. They call it the rut because you keep going around that same thing. Like you know, you look at the wood floors of your house. I mean, there's a track that people take, right, right, um, you look at a university and through the grass and, like, you can see where the students walk, whether or not there's concrete there or not. There, that's the path.
Speaker 1:So if you want to get out of a rut, do something else yeah, you know it could be simple as like putting a wrist watch on your other wrist, anything just shake, just a little little tweak, yeah, yeah so, uh, I kept in, uh abreast of your training process because my dad was helping to train you and coach you through the the process.
Speaker 1:To go sub 60 second, 400 meters, which, for those who don't know, that's like, that's a really impressive feat, regardless regardless of what age you are. Like, bro, yeah, for me, like I think maybe my PR back in high school was like maybe like a 53 hand time, but like now, if I go up to the track and I'm training and maybe doing 400 repeats, I'm around like 75 seconds. You know what I mean. Just like training, which I'm you, yeah, did a lot of that. So sub 60 and you gave yourself, was it eight weeks, ended up being six, ended up being six, but you had an eight week window.
Speaker 2:That was like the goal that was, but it got with after the second week.
Speaker 2:Um, some life gets in the way, okay, right, so I, so you shortened it yeah, and I shortened, I went through the process, which a lot of people do, and I dude what's cool is uh? However, wherever you do, um, you should check out, uh. So someone on instagram that I met on instagram he's got a huge following. Uh, just posted his subject, his, his, because I kept on telling people, like, what's your sub six? Somebody ran the sub 60 with you. Okay, no, no, it was his sub 60. Was this swimming goal that he had done and he achieved? He did it and he just posted about it today, damn, and he put my whole name like and that's my whole, what was my whole thing?
Speaker 2:I was like that was inspired by your. That's my yes, but someone else's sub 60 can be anything, right, and it doesn't have to be crazy. Like your sub 60 could be, you know, seven days straight of walking around the block after dinner. Yeah, like, that could be a big feat for somebody. Like it took me six weeks to train for that. It could take someone, you know, six weeks to prep, prep mentally, just prepare and get ready and to do those things, to be able to walk, you know, to get out of the house for the first time. Like, yeah, you know what is your sub 60.
Speaker 1:What did you end up, pr?
Speaker 2:in uh, 57 flat. Congratulations, man, it's impressive. I did 59 after five, after the fifth week. It was funny, your dad, um, because you can get you get their adrenaline going. And oh, yeah, and I can't you know we were it is, there was a football practice going on at the track we were at when I did the first, you know, the first 400, and uh, and I came out a little hot, I think, um, and in the video then your dad's yelling at me but I couldn't hear him, you know, yeah, just, I think your dad's like, hey, that's enough, that's enough, like slow down, right, and I just kept.
Speaker 2:I felt good, I felt good and I always knew about the, you know, apparently the monkey that jumps on your back. Oh yeah, sometimes I, sometimes I'm coming, dude, I'm coming right, yeah, and I'm coming around that back turn. I'm like I thought like I feel good, like I'm really strong, like fuck that monkey, like I'm not, you're not getting on my back, and then all of a sudden I feel someone tapping me on the shoulder. I'm like you're not getting on too, and uh, I made it probably about with 20 yards to go, 20 meters to go, maybe 10 meter, like within that window and and, uh, and I started, you know, feeling like something was pulling me back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, it's all arms at that point, yeah, and your dad told me yeah, my, and so I'm going, I'm doing all that, I'm just I'm, you know, your dad's talking to you in my head and I felt, okay, but I didn't feel like, um, it didn't feel great, like I didn't you know, um, and so your dad was like you know, what do you think you're in? I'm like, uh, you know, and I was the only other comparison I had was, um, before I had a run, did one on my own and it was like a 64 or something. I was like I'm like I don't know, like it wasn't even that good. You know, like maybe a seven, 65, seven, I don't know, yeah, and your dad kind of chuckles and he shows me the, the, the stopwatch, and I was 59 and I'm like no way, and in game of baby, like it felt so good, plus the fact that now the bird, like the, the pressure was off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I already broke it right, so now I had one more week left, plus see what else, whatever, whatever I can do, yeah and uh, and that's when I kicked in on the, the recovery piece, and started doing contrast therapy, and she would you know just hasana nice yeah okay yeah, there's a little spot on uh williams, yeah, yeah right over by a polar cafe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, polar cafe is delicious it is good yeah, nutrition, another important piece and folks who were following along with the story had now pursued their own sub 60. And you're inspiring people to, you know, pursue a greater version of themselves, which, oddly enough, not oddly enough, you know why you're here? Right, it's because the Beast Guard TV podcast is all about inspiring people through the stories and experiences and journeys of guests. So I want to dig in with just the first question around. You're inspiring people now with the sub-60 philosophy, but what is inspiring you lately? What inspired that sub-60 philosophy in the first place? This could be like over a lifetime of just thinking about like something, an inspiration that like follows you, or maybe even more recently, um, yeah, we could take well first to kind of off of uh, kind of the physical piece.
Speaker 2:You know, when I'm in the crossfit gym that I work out at uh. Sometimes I I can get after a third, two and people ask me, like what do you, what are you training for you?
Speaker 2:know, like dang, what are you like I'm? I get into it, uh, because I figured like, once you're there, you know, give it your best, right, yeah, and uh. And so people have sometimes asked me and it seems I don't know, some people laugh uh, my family probably the most. But, um, but honestly, I am training because I never let my kids. I have three kids, you know them, uh, so 26 year old son, 22 year old daughter, uh, and your 23 year old daughter and 28, uh year old daughter, and I never let them beat me in anything ever. Respect, like I, until they could and now they can many things, but but I'll still go after my guy. Yeah, right, um, and so, and so they're.
Speaker 2:And so I want to be a grand. I want to be an active grandparent. Um, you know I'm not in a rush, but I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, uh, and I want to be active. I don't want to be a grandparent, that's you, you know. And I don't want to be just playing with that. You know, playing Legos or doing all I want to do that. And, um, be out the driveway shooting hoops with them, catching base. You know, throwing baseballs on them, if I have the opportunity to coach one of that. I want to be able to do that when they're in high school and, more than that, I want to be able to compete against them. I don't want my grandkids to beat me at anything until they can and I'm going. I'm like they got to honor it. Yeah, they got to earn it and I want to. My goal is high school. Okay, that's my goal. So my goal is, like, um, if I hear any one of my kids, grandkids or their friends like, damn your grandpa's like a badass, yeah, I'd be like, okay, it was all worth it.
Speaker 2:And I figured like, and that's what I love in life. Like I, this isn't something like somebody cute, like it was actually like an accusation from this person I just met. It was at a pool, um, you know, setting up a shirt on and you know, uh, even leaner than um, like single digit body fat and I'm about now. But but this person's like, oh, wow, what do you do? And I had a hat on and sunglasses so you couldn't really see much of my age. Yeah, um, and I was with someone that didn't have a hat and sunglasses on and they are um, much younger. They're in their uh, I don't even know if they're 30 yet. Um, so I think he was putting me in that context and, uh, and he was asking oh, what do you do?
Speaker 2:And then and it kind of revealed to what age I was he was like, he was like oh, so you kind of made this assumption that I'm not enjoying life. Oh, you know, like he's drinking and eating whatever he wants, and that's why the way he looks, the way he looks, and he was in his 60s, he's like oh, I remember when I was your age, you know, I could do whatever I wanted. And then my friend was like do you know how old he is? Okay, was like do you know how, like, how old he is? Okay, um, and he was like oh well, then you must be sacrificing life.
Speaker 2:And I'm like no dude, like this is my enjoyment, right, like I had keel and pilot, literally I'd kill in pie last night. Um, new king, lime king, lime guy, huh, oh yeah, and spumoni ice cream at lunch. But I, you know, and I haven't worked out yet, but I'll do something today, right, but it's like, all the balance, you know, it's all there for me. And back to the idea of pursuit, like then, just me personally and what I'm doing to pursue, and in my instagram one of my hashtags is pursue you and that's you know, that's what I try to suggest to others and inspire others to do. And then I do everything I can to um practice what I preach.
Speaker 2:But I'm well aware that, uh, it's not easy, yeah, um, so I put it on myself of, like you know, I can't just try to preach it, I do have to practice it. So I have, you know, I break it down in different areas, um, for me to help it be able to kind of wrap my head around things and be able to, um, cause, you have to break things down right, like, um, you know, as an athlete, you have to break things down. Uh, you can't just, you know, sit down and eat the whole meal. You gotta take bites, right, right, right, um. So, but, but's, that's what it's in in in life, I'm trying to pursue my best self and I'm still. What gets me up in the morning? That don't think I've. I'm not there yet. Yeah, I'm always trying to find what's my ceiling.
Speaker 2:That was the, that was the sub 60 and now 57. I actually looked into it. I was like I'm curious what that is amongst people my age. Yeah, that nationals. You know ta, ta, track and field. You know what was the national time? So I looked that up. What was it? I want to play sixth in nationals and I'm like, okay, but I don't think even your dad was like the way that race, the way I handled myself on that, because I'd never done that was my third time I'd ever done it. Yeah, handled myself on that because I've never done that was my third time I'd ever done it, yeah, so I'm not used to it. I went too fast and whatever I think I could do, I think I could do 55, yeah, um, but I don't know, right, right, 57 could be, it like that could be my ceiling, but I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And in in my curiosity, in my, in my um post about it, like my curiosity is bigger than yeah, right, so my curiosity about you know, how many people's lives can I make better as a designer, as a human being on this planet? That's what I believe we're all here for. That's why I'm sitting here. Just, you know, do what I can to help you, to then help whoever your audience is Right, and I think that's what we're all here for. So, and my, to then help whoever your audience is, and I'm saying that's what we're all here for. So, and my father was a preacher, my mom's social activist, so I think it's in my genetics, yeah, and then I try to also, so it's in my nurturing and also try to. It was in my nurturing, it was in my nature, and then I was also in my nurturing growing up, and now I'm also trying to nurture it myself. Yeah and so, um, yeah, so just uh, like how to constantly pursue that and how to help other people pursue their best self, and that's what keeps me driving.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've found I'm far from finishing yeah, and I think, uh, like the Like, the pursuit of your best self, I like that as an inspiration, like carrot, because it never really stops, you never really lose that because, do you ever know, there's always a line that you continue to push. But you said something that it's curiosity Inherently. That is curiosity of being curious of how far can I really go, how far can I push my, my boundaries, um, you know what I'm capable of. And I think that obviously, curiosity is not just like physically and physical capabilities, but it also can pour into work and projects.
Speaker 1:And one of you inspired me I don't know if you know this, but we've talked about it, but when you brought me in at Nike, when I was coming into, when I was training at Nike, and then I was coming over to your office and we kind of set up like a two week internship and you were in, you were doing football cleat design or like working with those teams. Uh, and the first day I came over to your office and you introduced me to like all the designers that you were working with and you guys were all on like this backwash, remember, like desk by desk and their shoes and stuff, like these legendary shoes and um, you took me over to the computer and you took me through the shaquem griffin deck and, uh, the fly east cleats, I believe the fly east cleats.
Speaker 1:And you told me, you showed me it was the first time I ever seen a like a mood board or like an inspo board. And you showed me, like, these are the cleats, this is, you know, shaquem only has. You know, he has one hand. You know he's missing his second hand. So we went, you know, no laces, velcro so we could put them on, and this is how we like slipped them on and these are the materials we use. So there was this performance element to it. But then it was like, but shaquem plays like I don't remember what a shark. So that's why we used this type of material and made it look this way A falcon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a peregrine falcon yeah.
Speaker 1:And you were like it was like, yeah, these like nature, like animal, it's all around performance. It's crazy. And I was like that blew my mind from a curiosity standpoint, because I realized that in one product there can be so many stories told, like there's a performance, but then there's also a meaning and a story behind it and you know there's layers to it. And so that's now inspired a lot of my work and how I think about things, like because you can have something on the surface which is a cleat, and then it's the materials and then it's the functionality of it, but then there can be a whole other deeper, more personal storytelling behind product or service or a podcast or whatever that you can be really intentional about, which then allows other creatives who are curious when they learn that and in turn kind of inspires them. And that's what you did for me. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'll take curiosity over talent any day because there's a drive there, right, like you could be born with the talent and, no, no drive. And I think curiosity and drive that it's, it's connected. Yeah, so when I'm, as you're, sitting there, thinking like the athletes that you've been around, you know the ones that are, you know there's certainly to get up to the level you were at, like you know, there is a price of admission, right, there is a little of genetic talent that that gets you into the door. But then, after that, you know what is your curiosity on? On how much further can you go? Um, you could have, and I've seen it, I saw it in at a design school. You, you know all these kids starting with all different levels of of that talent and genetic talent, yeah, and what do you do with it? Right, right, and to me it's the curiosity of what can I do with it, right, who can I be? Yeah, that that starts separating everybody or starts other people start surpassing.
Speaker 2:We were talking about mccaffrey, uh, earlier. I mean, I didn't know, I don't know his high school career, I don't know, but I'm, I'm willing to bet. In fact, I've had conversations, had conversations with some people when he was in, uh, college and there was like, oh, he's a great college player, probably won't make it in the pros, and I'm like I don't know, there's something I could see, like there's some drive about, there's about him. And I think, maybe just because of the work that I was doing and being around elite athletes, that I could just kind of see it. And now I still don't think my work with Serena Williams, seven years before she finally retired and this is when I say finally, because when I was starting with her there were people that believed that she was going to retire any, any, any year, any moment- yeah I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 2:Um, and it was my job to you know, allow her to uh, leave the game on her terms. That's why I always had it with my job with athletes is right, not help them, not get injured Like what can I do to help them stay healthy? Um, and then leave the game on their terms. Uh, and my very first meeting with her, um, we were just talking about just kind of breaking down the footwear, the connection to the footwear and the athlete and her and blah blah, and I told her I said I, you know, respectfully, I don't think the world's seen the best of Serena Williams. And she was kind of like, well, let me see if they'll figure that out.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is probably after a couple of Grand Slam championships at this point.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, no, she was. So she's what? 25? No, this was 20, I think, okay, 20. And I kind of could tell like there's a little bit of a risky comment, yeah right. And she was kind of taken back and she was like, what makes you say that? And I'm like, well, I, you know, watched your whole career. I'm watching now Like I really started studying her before we met with her. Okay, I knew the footwear that she was wearing. I knew what I was there to do with her, what I wanted to do with her, what I felt we could do with her, what hadn't happened in the game yet, everything, all of that. And I just told her what I felt like she and I could do together. And she was like you know what? You're the first person from Nike that's ever said anything like that to me. What's go?
Speaker 1:You sparked some curiosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe I don't know. I mean she gets after it. She's a great one, like she and Indomitian Sioux. Yeah, people would tell me that they are one in a million, meaning great, do product with them, like, make them happy, whatever. But they're kind of. Lebron gets accused of that too, of, like you know he must have his own special right shoe or clear whatever. And you know michael was the same.
Speaker 2:Uh, michael's shoes are the same shoes that everybody else wore yeah uh, and for me, with indomitian and serena um, their insights, what they wanted in product and how I was able to work with them and the type of person they were. They're one of a million. Yeah, they represented a population of at least a million, I'd say multiple millions, because Serena didn't love going to the gym. There were times where she wanted, she loved her bed, like, stay rolled up in her covers and all cozy, and she didn't want to go anywhere, right, especially after having her child and, like you know, being married, and like she didn't want to, but she knew she had to go to the gym to get what she wanted, right, like that was her pursuit, like her pursuit of getting another championship went through the gym, yeah, right. So you got to get out of bed, yeah, right, and then once she gets in the gym, she's going to get everything, everything she has, um, and I've been around her practices where she had an off day and you know she'd listen to her body and her, listen to her trainer and follow. You know that's a thing about trusting the process, trusting the people around you. Like there were times that I was.
Speaker 2:What's so great about your dad? Is he just listened to your coach or listen to the people that you, you know. That's another support group, right, like, she's an amazing you know talk, and so does nomikin. Right, talks about the team that he has around him. Yeah, how important they are, um, but serena you look at, they're an individual. She's an individual athlete, but she was always out of her way to go to talk about the team that she had around her in the same work group and, um, so, uh, so, yeah, there, there uh two people that, um, I was very fortunate, fortunate to work with, that I learned a lot from them, and that idea of pursuit, um, of your best self, and that idea of curiosity, and she didn't, and I think maybe that's, yeah, sparked a little bit of like, huh, maybe I do have more to give, yeah, more in the time she said her trainer, her mom, her sisters and Serena all said that she was doing things on the court with that shoe that she had never been able to do before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned two guests that we had on season two of the podcast. Christian McCaffrey was on and Indomitian Sioux and both of those guys I've learned a ton from both of them and fortunate and grateful to call them friends, because you're talking about inspirations man and both very curious in their own right, and Domican is always looking for the edge. He's always looking for that 1% that could give him a competitive advantage over his opponent. And important to note on that not just a physical advantage, not just physical advantage, the mental advantage, the emotional.
Speaker 2:You know people, because emotional the he's you know people, because whenever I bring up his name I know I could bring him up with you. But people it's you have to be careful, right, because of what he's, what the media portrays, has portrayed him to be. He is the first athlete that I ever met, or ever of having a psychologist like an athlete, like psychologist Now it's a bit like now they're on staff, even down into some high schools, but certainly at colleges and, of course, the pro level. But he was the first one. He knew that that was something that was holding him back and he was being penalized too little he was penalized for and he knew what he could do with a better psychological advantage on the field. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, for sure. He focuses a lot on his team and who he has around him, and I got lucky because I essentially inherited his team, you know. So Keith and Charlie and all those in the regimen and the training programs and being out at nike, you know, and then training there.
Speaker 2:So I've had some of charlie's needles and needles in my arm. Oh yeah, I'm back.
Speaker 1:Yeah charlie will get after it. Man, he's been on the podcast too. He's a, he's a, really oh, he's a ball of knowledge. He's got he's got a doubt about that archives and archives of just performance knowledge and the way that the body works and how to increase performance and give an edge. And I also realized that, like the mindset that Indomitian had, has each one of his team members had as well, and then shit becomes infectious. And then the shit becomes infectious. It's like we're all competing. You know charlie and keith are both competing in their own lanes and endomic and I were competing and quran's competing we're. And then this like just environment of competition.
Speaker 1:It was like I found that it actually helped me bridge the gap from in seasonseason and off-season, because we would actually like compete. We would play games like tag and goal-running and all these things, or spike ball, and like this shit would get real, like we're ready to get after it. You know, throw balls and Dominick is calling me a cheater, like we're about to quit the game because you know he's really the one that's always cheating. But then, once we get to that Did you get that? Yeah, please, we got that. Once we get to training camp, you know, once I step into training camp, it's like my competitive muscles are. You know I've been training that. Yeah, I don't have. There's no switch, that was ever off, you know, it's just on.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. I told Adon vika one time uh, I was like, did you need to like figure out how to turn that switch or that, that switch into a dial? Right, like to be able to amp up and amp down where, like his, it's like, it's like a big, it's like one of those huge like switches that you know clicks in, yeah, and like you can't, like when it's like you got a power right, switch right, yeah, uh, but I'm sorry, and I think that's um, the athletes that I've met that are that are at that next level psychologically have the dial, yeah, as opposed to the, the big, the big switch or even just a little toggle switch. Right, they can ramp it up and ramp it down. Yeah, um, but there's a level, right, like it, it doesn't they can sneak up on it, but if they need to like crank it to 11 like that, they can do it. Yeah, um, but they're able to kind of temper that and I think it um, and for me, that's like I came back to like how I pursue things.
Speaker 2:I um, and how, like breaking it down, like I break it down into five facets uh, sleep, uh, psychology, movement, nutrition and recovery. Sleep is an inactive recovery, and recovery is a active form of recovery. So contrast therapy or whatever. So psychology is, and they all, it's a, it's a ecological system, right, okay, um, that makes up who you know, makes us up who we are. Yeah, um, and you can, you can train each one of them, uh, and each one of them. I try to get people that that uh want to get on their own pursuit, like um, I try to get people to to understand that they've always been on a pursuit, like you may now want to get on a pursuit of losing weight and getting back into movement, but that might be because you were sacrificing movement because you were so focused on your family and developing a career and the psychological piece of who you are, right. Or some people sacrifice sleep to do other things.
Speaker 2:I haven't met too many people where they're lacking all five. There's something that they're good at. Yeah, there's something that they've been doing that they, you know, has taken attention away from another. Uh, and, and, if you can help them, see it, they've already. They're already in. Yeah, right, um, and, and so, once they're in, and it's such a matter of like, okay, of like, okay. Now, we all only have 24 hours, right? So what do you do with those 24 hours? You did your training, you still do your training, your movement piece and psychological piece, because you do it with friends, right, right, yep, and some people you know, uh, the psychological piece uh and um, uh, recovery, uh can also be combined like the more you can kind of bring together multiple facets uh, the more you can kind of condense your. You know, 24 hours, yeah, right, get after more, that makes sense makes sense.
Speaker 1:You've worked with a lot of elite athletes. You've seen a lot of different mindsets, perspectives, approaches to both competition, but then also, since you're like collaborating with athletes in the design of the product that they are wearing, you've seen different approaches. Um, you know what? What do you think is unique about some of the the athletes that you've worked with and collaborated with? I mean, we mentioned Shaquem Mendominen, serena, you know. Has there been an athlete that's really like stood out and really wanting to be hands-on in the story that's told with the sneaker or the cleat or whatever's being curled?
Speaker 2:And over the years it's changed right. Like you know, in the beginning of my career in 94, you know it was Tinker and Michael, they were just developing that formula, yeah, that true collaborative formula, not collaboration where you just, you know, stick a name on it. You know there's a collaboration, that's happening, that's a symbiotic relationship. I would say arguably, um, while we even argue it, it's a fact. Uh, avar, eric Avar and Kobe Bryant are the poster. Um, okay.
Speaker 2:And I say are not, was because until somebody passes that up, um, like they they are and forever will be. Uh, then it's Tinker and and and Michael probably, um, but uh, trying to sit, think of some others. But there's that true collaboration. So when I first started there wasn't that much going on. In fact, my work with Scotty Pippen, there were times where I'd go with Tinker to Chicago, I'd go with him to go with To see.
Speaker 2:Scotty, yeah, well, yes he would come with me to see Scotty. I would go with um to see scotty. Yeah well, do you know? Yes, he would come with me to see scotty. Okay, to see michael. I got you um and uh. And I would think tinker would say that he learned some things from our relationship, yeah, uh, my relationship with scotty, and then how we worked, uh, and I certainly learned from them um and uh. And he learned from Bowerman, right, right, he was the goat, he was the originator.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, there's bookends, right? So the far extreme of the bookend that I ever worked with was Charles Barkley Just giving it to you like he just Right.
Speaker 1:He's not tripping.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, no, give me a sneaker and lights that one, yeah yeah, he was nice enough, like he enjoyed the story behind it, uh, right, and he certainly wanted the performance out of it. But, yeah, just trusted you. Yeah, he in fact one time said to me like you know, I'm not going to tell you how to do your job, you're not going to tell me how to play basketball. And I'm like, fair enough, I'm not gonna tell you how to play basketball. And then there's, there's other ones that um kg loved the process, uh, and I would say in the earlier days he was the one that really stood out, he really enjoyed it. Yeah, sitting down so much so, like he would come to campus, um, and sit down with us, um, and learn, like how do you know?
Speaker 2:point and click on the computer to like put colors into it okay and like I really loved it, uh, and and and, loved the storytelling and and and, because he loved the storytelling he loves trying to help write the story, yeah, um, and that's on on his, uh, the kg3, um, the OBF, on the bottom, on the pivot point, the original block family that came from him. Oh damn, and that didn't really take much digging. That, literally was something that he contributed, that he wanted, because that was his crew. He wouldn't be who he is without them and so he didn't really want that shoe to be without them.
Speaker 1:a piece of the story. Kg was one of my favorite players. Man growing up, yeah, I was a timberwolves fan because of kg, yeah, yeah, because he played the four. He was like tall but he was like he had the. He was kind of a flex, for you know me, like I had the mid-range, the originator, and he was just intense like the way that he played and I, uh, I remember the story. Like he had the rubber band and whenever he'd like make a mistake on the on the court, he'd have this rubber band on his wrist and he'd like snap the rubber band to like I don't give him some type of reminder what he's out there to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know uh do you know what the rubber band became? No, kg's rubber band. No became no ag's rubber band. No, because I was working on, uh, the shock stunner, when I was also working in with kg, and there was something that I designed to go with the shock stunner and it was a silicon wristband that eventually became the live like the live strong?
Speaker 2:no way. So 110 million really into live strong to fight cancer. What was that? Came from the kg yeah rubber band. Because of my relationship with kg and his. He lost. They lost in the first round for the third year in a row and I remember watching him and all like I think it was. I don't know it feels like there was uh, it was an away game and there was confetti but but I might be off on that, but I just remember him watching on TV and he just looked like a lost kid on the playground and he was just so dejected. I got home, uh, or I got to work and um started writing a letter, um to him, uh, and then there, you know twist, you know the play that here in Portland.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the jewelry spot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they had rubber bands. I mean, this is 98, 99, um, 99, maybe, uh, these rubber bands that had words printed on them, okay, and these words were, like you know, desire and um and fight and whatever, like all, like all passion and other things, and I'm like man, that's KG. So I, I bought a few of those rubber bands, uh, wrote this letter, um and uh, and put it on and mailed it off to him, uh, and then I was over in Asia working on the shoe, cause I bought a rubber band for myself, right, and the word was just printed. So after a while I would rub off, yeah, oh, okay, and like, oh, that's a bummer, and and thinking about um and and not that you, you're always trying to figure out with with product, um, with podcasts, with with youtube, whatever you're always trying to. How do you bring more value to what you're doing? Yes, to inspire more people, to bring more people along, bring more people, to bring more people along, to inspire more people to come aboard. Yeah, so, no different with footwear. So, work on the shoes, like I mean, how can we bring more value to what we're doing?
Speaker 2:And I got tired of, like you know, putting chrome on an eyelet or whatever. Yeah, right, right, more isn't necessarily more, but so how could I bring something that is more, that delivers more than than anybody's ever had? Like was? Okay, I was thinking like man, it'd be cool to have a um, like a, a wristband. That was, that's a kid. Buy the pair of shoes, put the wristband on like kg. Um could wear it during the game, right, right, right, and you couldn't wear necklaces anymore. Yeah, um, and I could emboss something on it. Right, and you couldn't wear necklaces anymore. Yeah, um, and I could emboss something on it. Yeah, and it was also that we're talking about the shock stunner to be for the final four, and this idea for me is like a cinderella team, the dream of getting to the final four.
Speaker 2:Yeah the dream of even going to the, you know, to the dance, um, so that. So I, uh, I wrote, I designed it with the word dream on one side and swoosh on the other. Okay, long story short, or trying to make it shorter, but I have dominoes I can connect from KG losing in that third round to $110 million and to Livestrong. And one of those dominoes is Mark Parker asking if I wanted to go with him to the Tour de France. And is is, uh, mark Parker asking if, if I wanted to go with him to the tour to France. And I'm like, yeah, that would be fun. Hell, yeah, uh. And so I we got CEO at this time he was the.
Speaker 2:Was he the CEO or president? Okay, um, he was leadership, yeah, uh. But he invited me, oh, because I was going to be going over to Europe, um, to start the footwear design office over there. Okay, and so, uh, so he just invited me in. And then, uh, and Scott McEachran was the sports marketing person for Lance. He and Lance were super tight, uh, and when I got over there I had all these ideas and one thing led to another right, these dominoes, these, you know, the sponges, the dominoes and the butterflies. So, the dominoes for me, one of the dominoes was Scott.
Speaker 2:In our conversations about man, I should have done a yellow band, dream band, and we could have given him out for Lance, like the dream of being at the tour and whatever your dream, it goes back to that sub-six part. What is your dream? Yeah, land the interpreter differently, yeah, by everybody, and uh, and he's like, oh, man, I'd be sick and live strong was happening, and so it was. You know, scott then took the diamond dominoes and kind of had his his thing and, um, and for me, in the dominoes piece, it's like, and it connecting to the butterfly effect of, you know, butterfly can flap its wings in south america and eventually change the weather here in portland. Um, I don't know how long that takes, I don't know right, it's short, maybe it's long. Um, as long as you continue that momentum, yeah, um, you may be able to. You know that small effect of the butterfly flapping its wings, me, you know, like working with kg and him snapping hair can literally eventually, if you line up the dominoes and just create momentum, you know where it's gonna go. You just keep the positivity going.
Speaker 2:Don't worry about what Scott McEachern's gonna go off and do with that idea. Don't worry about what somebody else is gonna do with one of your ideas. Let it go. And hey, that's a great idea. And what if? And you do this and you do that? Not a oh, but wait right, don't be that kid. Don't be like, oh, that's a dumb idea or that's my idea. Just let it go.
Speaker 1:And in fact, add more fuel to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and eventually you might change the world, or you might change somebody's life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy man. Crazy man because that there was the live strong bands but then there were all the nike bands, that like all of them, from that you know, and they had like the different colors that were coming up so they.
Speaker 2:So their equipment team came to me and said would you mind if we package these and sold them? I said absolutely, so cool, those are cracking. Just don't ever put dream on one of them, because that was shit for buy your dream, like, I don't want to sell dreams, buy dreams. Oh, wow, okay, um, so the only way if you have a dream wristband kevin carroll I don't, you know kevin, I don't know kevin. Okay, I do, shove kevin carroll on this, okay, uh, he was his business bookmark that. So I met kevin cart. You have bookmark he. I met kevin cart carroll, uh, when I was working nike. He was the trainer for the 76ers. He did a couple other things along the way. Then became his business card at Nike, said Catalyst, and he was like Phil Knight's guy, okay, and he was just a catalyst for making things happen, okay. So he had this and he wrote a book called the Red Rubber Ball, the Red.
Speaker 1:Rubber Ball Red Rubber Ball Okay.
Speaker 2:Great book, a little copy, one of those little books you can. Oh, cool, you should take time to read it, but you can read it probably in 15 minutes, or you should probably take at least 15 days to read it, okay, if not 15 years, and keep reading it. All right, it's an amazing, and he does this. He has an acronym for dream, uh. And so he asked, he wanted, he. He made a bunch of them in in his own colors. We did a bunch, so the only way you could get those is through kevin or through nike basketball, okay. And then the baller bands became someone else, something else, but it became part of popular culture on the court, uh, which was super cool.
Speaker 1:And then yeah, and then adidas started doing it too. So for me bands were different because they had like a little like indentation around the whole thing. It was like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Uh, so the very first Silicon wristband that was ever created and I have no problem saying this, because silicone is a natural material. They'll eventually disintegrate, go back into the earth. Uh, the very first one that was ever made. Uh is in my wife's drawer at home, or negan's drawer. It's in this pink because they were like the factory that that was doing them. Uh, thought I was making for my wife which I was like because it's jewelry.
Speaker 2:It's irish jewelry, yeah so they made them in pink yeah, because any one of my favorite colors pink and uh, so that was, yeah, that was the very first one, but the I still use this today. In fact, I was working with a client down in LA yesterday and for me, what we do is all about creating conversation pieces, so this is a conversation piece. You hope that what we're doing right now will inspire and enable other conversations to happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah this is the butterfly flapping its wing and the dominoes that just let them go and get more momentum, and Kevin Carroll needs to be on this, and then he needs to go on like whatever you know, wherever it goes, and so the live strong wristband. So if you and this is perfect now because of what's happening in our country and the divide that's happening, conversations are so important what's the worst thing you can do for a relationship? The worst thing you can do for a relationship?
Speaker 1:The worst thing you can do for a relationship. Stop talking.
Speaker 2:Not communicating, right, yeah, what's the best thing you can do to find empathy with someone? Listen, that's amazing. Communicate, yes, and listen, morse it right. We were born with one mouth and two ears. Use them appropriately, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So if Livestrong Wristbands had just happened today and you saw someone wearing one from across the street, you'd be like they're okay, yeah, they bought that for a dollar, right. And if and if you, if, if you walked across the street and now you're next to them, you'd be like, oh, hey, um, you know, I got one too. Or, or you know whatever. There's a little comment, like a little little icebreaker conversation piece, right. And you find out like, oh, yeah, I'm a survivor, or you know, my, my loved one just passed away, or whatever. It was Like that was a, a conversation piece and a connector of. Didn't matter who you were Then you, but today, now, you might later, within five minutes, find out that they just voted for Trump, or they just voted for Kamala, or whoever. Then it's like but you're still an okay person, so let's have a little bit more. Let me find out more. You right, right, because you're wearing a live strong band, right, let me, let me hear you out. Yeah, it's a, it's a cultural, um, uh, barrier breaker. Yeah, uh, and to me, that's that's what uh, footwear is. Um, I've seen, I've been a part of it, I'm still a part of it. Instagram is amazing, uh, because a lot of times you don't know who you're dming with, um, and you're just talking. Don't know who you're dming with and you're just talking about shoes and sneakers. You're having some level of connection, yeah, um, that's where this, this, this guy, um, sean, uh, you know this, this, uh, the barrier that broke with the sub 60s started with the sneakers. You know the, the conversation happened. So all these things kind of, yeah, for me, like everything, everything that relates and this idea of to your earlier question about, will I still pursue, like I'm still. I have a hypothesis about my life that I'm still just kind of banging against and tweaking the sponges, dominoes and butterflies in this idea of pursuit, uh, is that for me? Yeah, um, and that I just keep in conversation pieces. It's all in my, in my instagram, yeah, like hashtag conversation pieces is part of this. Um, in the pursuit, uh, pursue you in the sub 60.
Speaker 2:I did did an event with Kyle Lenny about. He had a race that he wanted to break a time and beat a world record, and I kind of had the same, you know, and he was like that was what his thing was, you know, and what somebody else's you know, it's the same. You know he has his edge that he's looking for, right, we all have it. We all have an edge and I believe, you know, we all have the capability to push to at least find it. Yeah, can we and and push against it. You know, is it a brick wall going nowhere? You might think so, right, but once you get up to it, maybe it's a little softer than you think, you know, and you find that you love you, you get something out of that. That push right as long as you, I would say, like you have to.
Speaker 2:Recovery is one of the five facets, right, yeah. So, and I found out this out with um working with you, working out with your dad, and, and this time bound of six weeks, I couldn't, and at my age, like I knew, recovery was going to be a big piece, like, if I'm just going to the track once a week and even if I push myself as hard as I possibly can, it's going to take longer, right. So I knew I had to get to the track at least two days a week and push as hard as I could against that edge and be able to push the edge. But if I show up at track and I'm already exhausted from the workout before three days earlier, I can't even get to the edge to push against it. So I have to recover. Yeah, so that's an important piece and that's where life gets in the way for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Um, and you have to like sleep right is is a tough one for people when you're working multiple jobs, you're a single parent, um, you know life is just pulling you in the different. Like you're training, even if you wanted to find your that, that limit to push against, you have everything else pulling you back. Yeah, what can you do to, to, to, uh, to recover so that that pull isn't as strong? Um, which can be like, and again, I've I've worked with enough people, I've I've I try to be empathetic. I've traveled the world, I've met with, had deep conversations with as many people as I possibly can um, to learn what I believe life is all about. And it's that's tough man for, for a lot of people unfortunately the majority of our country, you know, donuts are still cheaper than than uh yeah, than apples right yeah and donuts are more accessible than apples, right?
Speaker 2:so just that alone, the nutrition piece. Like you fill yourself up with donuts, you're not going to sleep well, you're not going to be psychologically feeling very well, you're not going to want to move. Yeah, like that will wreck you 100%. But when they're at, you know around the corner and you know apples are more expensive and you got to take a bus to get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got a little sweet tooth over there, showny.
Speaker 2:That's top. Yeah, we got a little sweet tooth over there, shani, hey, but we're all fortunate enough to be able to have balance around us, right, right, whatever that balance means to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we can indulge in Eat High's home-baked cookies though. Yes, yeah, yeah. So one more question, because before we jump into our halftime, you mentioned Kobe earlier and all of this like pushing up against the wall and the boundary of what you can possibly achieve as an individual. He was the perfect product of that and the way that he pursued and you mentioned him in his collaboration with Eric Avar. I'm curious why you put that at the top right, because I know about Tinker and Jordan. Everybody talks about that, at least here in Portland. We know what they did together, but I feel like with Kobe and Avar it's not. As you know, that stories hasn't been as told. Why do you put that?
Speaker 2:put them at number one uh, because I know both relationships quite well, yeah, maybe more than most. Um, I think it's funny. I would say that's the one. I guess don't.
Speaker 2:I guess, in my own personal belief, is a downfall and it's unfortunate that we don't know that, yeah, and that story hasn't been told and now can only be fabricated through you know. So it can certainly be told through Eric, but then fabricated because we unfortunately lost Kobe, rosalind Holmes. Fabricated because we, we, uh, unfortunately lost Kobe. And I don't, yeah, man, I don't, I don't. The world will never know how much we lost Um, but knowing what, knowing who Kobe only met him a few times, uh, and even in those times you're taken back.
Speaker 2:But knowing Kobe through Eric and having a lot of conversations, uh, with eric about him, and also knowing eric as a person, uh, and knowing where kobe was working on, um, yeah, this world lost a lot, uh and uh, and he would have been I think he would have been out in the world more, uh, when he was retired, yeah, post basketball, than than um, than he was on the court, yeah, and when was the last time you saw michael? Yeah, when it was the last time you could say, oh, this event, michael inspired these people. Um, oh, remember when you saw michael last week doing this or doing that or whatever. Not to take anything away from Michael, like God, he gave us a lifetime of memories and inspiration.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he deserves to do whatever he wants to do with the rest of his life. I'm not saying to take anything away from him, but two different individuals, two different individuals. And what um on his own time and who he is as a person. It's just different than Tinker Um, and I'm good friends with Tinker and and uh, and you know, huge fan of him professionally, maybe an even bigger fan of him personally, um and his family and all that, but it's just, they're just different. Yeah and uh, and what eric and kobe um would have done together? Uh and yeah, and I and I would love to. I'm working on a little something that um hopefully will come to fruition, where we'll get some more of those stories out. Yeah, um, but it's also not the type of person Eric that was hey, look, I'm probably sitting here a little bit because of that from Eric.
Speaker 2:Eric's just not that type of person. He's a much more lead by example and kind of always stay in the shadows, right, he? When I was working with him, he would always like, no, you go do it. And I'm like, oh, I him. He would always like, no, you go do it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not, I'm more of a I mean, this isn't uh natural for me, like it's somewhat uncomfortable for me, um, but I always take the opportunities. Like I have a little bit of a jitter inside of me right now, just kind of buzzing, because I get.
Speaker 2:I get in these situations where I have to get a little bit outside of myself, yeah, because it's not natural to me, but I put myself here to pursue me right or so you're my best, because I just like serena, like I'm, my goal is to win the championship, to be my best self, uh, and in in my gym, like to do that and to inspire people and enable them and do whatever I can to help others. I have to sit here, right, I don't like I have, I have to do what. Like I didn't ask you, I didn't like when you, when you texted me, I wasn't like sure, you know what, what do you? What? You know, my fee is this or you know whatever. So I appreciate the pro bono. Pull up, absolutely For sure. Yeah, beautiful man, what do you hope this turns into? What are your?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. Last season we saw a lot of growth on youtube and, uh, we came up with this formula on how we're releasing episodes and how we're amplifying them and chopping them and editing them etc. And then we were having conversations with distribution platforms and networks and we were essentially trying to sell the show. So sell the IP or get like sponsorship and amplification, because, you know, listens aren't super high or views, depending on the episode, like we can compete, but most times, like subscriber count, view count, like we're nowhere near. You know, some of these bigger podcasts that like are actually making money. So we were figuring like if we get with the network, then that could lead us to getting that amplification and then boom, we're in a good space. And so that was last season, spent a lot of time through the season trying to make that happen.
Speaker 1:And then, coming into this season, I was feeling like it was really like that approach was handcuffing me too much, handcuffing us too much, because, at the end of the day, this show, beast Guard TV, which is not even a show, it's just a concept, has always been to tell unique stories, share my own personality and then leverage friends and folks that I'm inspired by, leverage their personalities and stories to inspire people. That's really the core of it. It is just have a genuine conversation, create space for real thoughts, feelings, beliefs, personalities to show through and then allow others to participate in that, as if they're just a fly on the wall on the wall. And so I realized that, like, trying to push so hard on the monetization of it and the selling of it was actually, I think, working against that um and so for this season, it's really back to just the core of it. You know, having the conversations back to people inspire and then where it goes from there. You know, hopefully we'll get some sponsorships and you know whatever, but that's not the, that's not the mission.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I mean that maybe it could be a byproduct of the mission but just I just put in my last uh sneaker story, sunday uh post on instagram, uh, and it said they're. I've said it before in other posts but made a point in this last one about if you focus on the people over profit, then you have a chance to build a brand, a sustainable brand, yeah, and the business will come. If you focus on the profit over the people, you might build a business for some time, but the beginning is already, or the end is already started, like there is an end to it, right, right, if that's how you, if you just keep staying focused on the, the profit, because the people will, you know people change, right, people, you know our focus um changes and so you may hit a trend and and be part and and build a financial, you know, profitable business. Yeah, uh, but once that trend shifts, once people shift right, then things start going down and the end is near um. So I've always said people over profit you know, but?
Speaker 2:but to gain more, to bring more community to, to, to build more population, yes, you have to. You have to have profit, right, yeah, um, but you're, but you're doing, you're gaining that profit to build more population, right, um, as opposed to being the other way around and yeah, yeah, yeah, the, the profit maybe is the means at some point, but the end is always the people, exactly versus the other way.
Speaker 2:And then again I'm like if some people, if that's, if that's the name of their game is profit, then over people, then that's the thing. If you want to have a bigger impact in this world, if you want to build a brand versus just a business, then you got to stay focused on the people, the people you're trying to serve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, on the people the people you're trying to serve, yeah, yeah. And then at some point, like having the business, the framework of the business, helps to do that with the people and do it sustainably, right. So it like becomes this flywheel the people led to the profit, which leads to more and deeper connection to the people, which is more. And then that flywheel has started and I like how you use that that people over profit Like you give you give it a quick little framework, right, and it's like okay that that can be put up on the wall as a North star and, um, you also have done this in in your work with sponges, dominoes and butterflies. You've created this life almost like life framework and in some ways maybe like a personal creed, right, or like these are like my principles, which then can justify, or you can like compare what you're doing in life and like you're the why you're doing it, because you've defined this personal creed and I think as creatives, it's it's really important to do. I think everybody, it's important for everybody, but people that lean more creatively and have a lot of ideas and want to do a lot of different things.
Speaker 1:Speaking from experience, for me, like there's a lot that I want to do, and there's a lot that I'm doing, and it becomes difficult to over time to define it, not just for other people but also internally, when you question like damn, why am I doing this thing again? You know, why does Beast Guard TV exist? And so I've worked in it, continuing to evolve like my own kind of life framework. For me it's community creativity and capital. It's a little bit more surface level than the sponges, dominoes and butterflies, but it's kind of bit more surface level than the sponges, dominoes and butterflies, but it's kind of the same, a similar approach. And so I would love to just hear you know, especially for the people listening too, like where did sponges, dominoes, butterflies come from? And you know generally your perspective on having a life framework like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where did it come from? I mean, I've been working on it for decades, so I was a decade. Oh yeah, no for sure, um, I have these opportunities in life. This may end up being one of them. As I said, you're listening to you. I have some thoughts going into my head, um, that I might, if they stay in my head long enough, uh, I might do something with them, meaning they might go into, they might bang against my current hypothesis. If, between now and when I get home, they evaporate, then then they, they didn't have that as much impact. So I try not to. I I try to, just I try to trust the process, which is very hard for me. Um, I tried to.
Speaker 2:My biggest issue in life is is not being present. Um, so I have these out of body experiences. Uh, often, too often, um, because I live so far out in the future. Um, I'm always trying out in the future. Um, I'm always trying to create the future, I'm always trying to affect the future, I'm always trying to make a better future, uh, and so so I often take myself out of, out of the situation I'm in, and they even sometimes reflect too much on the past, but only not to dwell on it, but to only reflect on it to understand where that might take us into the future. So I'm always kind of this pull that's always happening with me, and so trying to be present is difficult.
Speaker 2:Actually, my logo, it's all. It's also all on my, my Instagram, if you, if you kind of dig into it, which I'll eventually. My goal with Instagram is to eventually reveal it all but um, but that just takes a lot of time too. But my AC, my logo, um, is an A with a C around it, which kind of looks like an ampersand, like the at, and so for me it's like and the A is a square and then the C is a circle. Okay, my mom always told me that I'm a square, was a square. Well, I am.
Speaker 2:She's passed me by Square bagging around, yeah, and she said you're going to have that problem your whole life if you don't fit in Right. Fit in right, um and uh, and she's right, uh, to a degree. I'll get back to that second. But so, and then the ad that the ampersand is also like to to, when I see my own logo, when I see that and what I want to eventually do with it, um, you know, like put it on a t-shirt so that other people can understand that the story behind it is how important it is to be, um, to be present, you know, cause we, we really can't.
Speaker 2:We can do what we, we can try to do what we can, and we should affect the future to make a better future for all of us. Um, you know, we can learn from the past, we can enjoy memories from the past, but we should really focus on on what's happening right now. And so that's part of my logo. The sponges, dominoes and butterflies is all part of that. My consultancy is called Moonshot Molecules, so this idea of having one eye on a telescope and one eye on a microscope, so a telescope far out there, and to have vision to a big moonshot and then also be empathetic to the finer things that are happening today with human behavior. The molecular structure of human behavior is the way I kind of look at it and have that empathy. So the molecules are about the empathy for me and the moonshot's about the bigger vision, right?
Speaker 1:And then being able to connect those, those together got you um, which is a little bit like that's the presence, the present, yeah, the molecules and the moonshot. Maybe is could be the future for sure.
Speaker 2:And then the dominoes, and that's what all fits in there too, is like the sponges, you know, just soaking up everything around you. I've been blessed, been blessed to be born with five senses, so I try to maximize my five senses. Since I've been here, I've been trying to soak up everything around me. You have your little scent thing going on in the bathroom and the chocolate chip cookies over here, and all that. I've been taking it all in with my five senses. And then so that's the sponge piece of it, and then the dominoes is the connection between, you know, the molecules in the moonshot, and again back to the end of the butterfly. So I don't know what is going to happen from this. Yeah Right, the butterfly. So I don't know what is going to happen from this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, like, uh, yes, we came from the same neighborhood, but we have much different background, right, um? And if you go in to our parents backgrounds, that's even more different, right, yeah, um. I mean, I was fortunate having a priest, preacher for a father, and my mom a social activist. So I grew up in an environment that was very inclusive and I had all sorts of people around me, um, so I've, I've, I've tried to maintain that empathetic, but it's, it's, it's work, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you know, I have to say yes to wanting to sit down and have a conversation with somebody that does not look like me and maybe even makes me a little bit fearful. They look so different than me, but I have to have a curiosity, to a deep enough curiosity again, not my curiosity is bigger than Right, because that person could have different beliefs and different approaches. Different beliefs, yeah, and how amazing and awesome would that be Right, because then I learned something new. Because the last thing I want to do is sit in front of myself. Yeah, god, I like that would just be boring. I don't like traveling by myself.
Speaker 1:I like being out and meeting people and learning about people. This is dope man. Because then, like, that's the perfect example of I mean by having like that life framework. It's like when, when I asked you to, you know, come on the beast car tv podcast, you have something like, okay, I have this opportunity. Maybe this is a butterfly opportunity. You know, it immediately goes through, like the filter of sponges, dominoes, butterflies.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, maybe this, maybe this podcast is the first domino to fall, just like the you know, the kg rubber band thing. Right, because you could also cite experience, your own experiences. Or maybe it's the butterfly, like you know, maybe this is a flap of the wing that leads to that over there and the the next moonshot. This is the molecule to the next moonshot, which is cool, I think, just to go about life and having somewhat of a filter or formula by which to make decisions on what you do and then how to justify what you do against like, is this true to me and my values? Because you've defined it in a way that that you know, isn't a laundry list of different like values and morals and principles, like you put it in. You distill it down to three words yeah, that each have their own particular meaning. Yeah, and then. Okay, an opportunity comes or an idea comes. Let me put it through this can it? Is this a sponge? This is not a butterfly.
Speaker 2:No, okay, funny we're all like, you are the ceo of you, of your life, of your, so we can. It's the similar framework to building a business the building yourself, yeah right, I'm, I'm the ceo of me. So if I want to create a successful the business of me yeah uh, the brand of, like, I need to have a vision, right, right, right A mission.
Speaker 2:Yeah that you can believe in yourself and belief is the you have to. I mean, again, I would argue, nike's the biggest brand on the planet, more so than Apple, because people in India and and china the biggest populations have other brands that they, um, are part of their life. More so than apple, I think nike is the biggest popular, popular brand, yeah, on the planet. If phil knight did not have a molecular belief in what he was doing and what he and and and bill bowerman wanted to bring to this world, uh, I wouldn't be sitting here. You wouldn't be sitting there. Yeah, right, that's right, your dad wouldn't be. You might not be born, dude. Yeah, like, your dad's a badass athlete. I don't and I don't know the relationship that he had with nike or whatever, but Nike had a relationship with sport while he was growing up. He ran for them, right, yeah, like, that's a big. So, yeah, no, that's right.
Speaker 2:And people's belief in religion one of the biggest in the world, right. People's belief in political stance one of the biggest, like, I mean. Belief is so, if, if, and that's what a lot of people say you have to believe in yourself before you can start helping others. Yeah, um, which is something else, I have a very hard time with um because I, I deeply want to help others. That's why I feel like I'm here but I have to. I'm constantly trying to believe more, like I have to have a hard time believing in myself.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's another podcast, yeah, right, but yeah, belief is the foundation of just moving forward. Yeah, so the belief of a brand, the belief of yourself as that brand, the belief in the values that you bring to that and all it's all, it all kind of works together, yeah, and so, yes, I, and so I have these opportunities where I consciously try to pull all that um, and again, it's some of this in my instagram. I want to create a, a brand like my own, yeah, brand that then people can buy into. I have another thing about it's the stories that matter. Like all of this, the, the, the sponges, dominoes and butterflies, the, you know, the molecules, moonshot, like it's all that all makes up the story. The journey makes the story right. 100, so in it. So it is the stories that matter, yeah, right, like we have in this the conversation pieces, like what you know, but, um, so the I'll give another one to you.
Speaker 2:Um, stop me anytime if, uh if I get going to do it like you're getting out of body again, but, uh, but I have this thing, uh. Another thing that I look through is is like community, culture and conversation, right so. So communities, um are created by cultures, like they bind together, right, uh. Whether it's athletics, right, so the communities are going like Stanford has a community built around a couple of different cultures, right there. Know, uh, michigan might be one of the bigger, you know um, usc or like that, that collegiate culture um, that drives that community. Like, if I'm wearing a michigan t-shirt anywhere in the world and someone else graduated from michigan and I bump into them, they're like yo, yeah, right, it's like the live strong band. You're like the live strong band. Yeah, so you have the community of, of, um, of the culture. You have the culture of. You know whether the experiences, the events, the moments, whatever that you know that people come together. And then the conversation pieces, the t-shirts, the shoes, the um streamers for a birthday party, the um, uh, turkey on a table for thanksgiving, whatever. You know these, these conversational pieces that say like, wait a minute, are you part of this community that celebrates a culture? Yeah, right, um, so that's. That's something else that I is in my kind of um kind of on my table.
Speaker 2:I guess that I'm kind of banging things against and designing and working with, and so eventually I want that to become my brand so that, yeah, um, people see that ac logo or the sponge icon or the domino icon or the butterfly, like I, like, I want, I would love in the future to my brand to have enough impact where people connect to it, so that they see a butterfly. Wherever they see a butterfly they're like, oh, there's that brand or they are. I actually don't even care if that much is even better, it'd be better, yeah, yeah, it'd be better if it was. Even it got so impactful that it was disconnected from the brand, yeah, that it had meaning on its own, yes, right, yeah, so I guess that's almost. It's like what Jordan shoes turned into or what Covey has turned into, and you know they become bigger than the brand itself, yeah, and so that philosophy, that value, whatever, yeah, and if you ask my kids, you know what three things are most important to your dad, or if you put it into context without even giving them too much, um, they would say sponges, dominoes and butterflies. Because that's even in the um. I don't know if we should do this uh, um, with with the cameras rolling or not. You can edit it later, but you know, the letters that the parents would write, you know, for junior year, is yeah, right, um, it's on every one of the, every one of their letters.
Speaker 2:And it started with jackson, right, I'm like what the hell am I gonna tell jack? Like I want him as dad, and then, and then also with these other kids, all the other parents asking me hey, will you write a letter for my son or my? Yeah, yeah, and like sure, and I had a you know quite a few to write, or even like a hand. I wasn't like massive, massive ton, but I want to put something into each one. Yeah, and I was like well, I wanted to share what I've learned, what you've learned.
Speaker 2:If I get hit by the proverbial bus, uh, on my way home today, what am I leaving for the world?
Speaker 2:What am I leaving for my kids? We're like what is my hypothesis that other people take with them? Yeah, and I was like that's the letter I need to write. Yeah, so I wrote all that out and then added a personal paragraph in front and a personal paragraph on the back, but the bulk of that letter is the same for my kids as it is the same for Riley Ford, braden Ford, yeah, for everybody that I wrote to. And so, yeah, yeah, that's my um, yeah, that.
Speaker 2:So, these, these, these moments that I have, I try to um, yeah, do act on them, do some build, build on them. It's a slow, you know, it's a slow build, just yeah, just like any brand. How, uh, you have to have patience too. It takes time. I mean, like, here's a good back to you, like, um, to athletics or footwear, even, uh, and for real, do you know, uh, when was the when, what year could you have bought, just bought, either at retail or um online, a pair of hoka shoes, or on shoes? What year? What year? What do you? What do you mean? Like I could have walked to, uh, I could go online and purchased a pair of hoka, like three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, like, how many years ago could I have bought a pair of hokas and put them on my feet? Or bought a pair of Haunts and put them on my feet?
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess, whenever online shopping started, but whenever the brand or whenever that's what I'm asking Like, do you know how old the I don't, no, because a lot of people think they're you know, like Like last couple of years, last couple of years, yeah, so, so, maybe like five, six, eight, right, do you know? I have no idea, 15. 15 years Been around for 15 years, yeah, and if I brought the I don't have the on, I don't know how to be the one now. When I left Nike, they still had the original hokers that I bought. I bought the first pair of hoka online. When you get out of the, get them online or at the boulder running company.
Speaker 2:Uh, I bought uh ons over in europe, um, because it was the first place you get in my bottom of this retail place. Uh, and if I took if I took that on running shoe because it was called on running, but I took that on running shoe over to the flagship that's now on 23rd and put it on the shelf, people would be like, oh, it must be a new, like a new shoe and not like like it looks like it fits with everything else. Okay, they my point being it had they haven't changed same way, like they have not changed for 15 years. So you have to have that patience. So now you take that analogy to back to our, our life and being the ceo of your own brand. Yeah, and back to the original question of like, what wakes me up in the morning, what I keep pursuing.
Speaker 2:Like I got, I'm into this for the long haul, yeah, yeah. Like I'm not, I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm getting somewhere. Yeah, 54, yeah, I got, you know, I'm still not on the back. Nine, I I got, I got another 56 to go. That's my, that's my, uh, my goal anyway, oh, yeah, um, and to be active, like to go out, yeah, just, I could you know, try to do for out the athletes that I worked with, right, um, I want to go out on my own terms, but, yeah, well, I think you.
Speaker 1:You saying that we have to. Each we are the CEO of our own brands, of our own companies. That takes another meaning when you step away from a corporate job or you step into working for yourself as an entrepreneur or a consultant, or you're building your own company. Yeah, for you, you spent 25 years and, like you, were the first intern. This is like, yeah, first design intern. Yeah, first design intern with nike. You go for 25 years with the company and then you're stepping out onto your own as an innovation consultant, as an advisor, creating your own brand, and so that's a stark contrast, right, and you're not the first, you definitely aren't the last who has a dream, has a vision and wants to go out and achieve and do that thing. And so now, over the past few years, as you've been the CEO of your own brand, of your own company, what lessons have you learned for other creatives or other aspiring entrepreneurs that you would give them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say I'd like to think anyway that, uh, that I've been, I've, I'm, I'm pretty, I've been staying on my purpose path, um, some might even look back like say that I'm, you're born on your purpose path and I and I've stayed on mine, um, and Nike, like we walked that same path together. Uh, and I've stayed on mine, um, and, and maybe even a little bit earlier than when I was, uh, when I left, um, I think Nike veered off their purpose path. So so when you say, like it's stark difference, for me it was the same and that's why I felt so comfortable at nike um, I still work, you know, I work hard, um, but I also like to play hard it. It felt more comfortable at nike because it was I was so focused on what I want to do for the world, which is what they want to do, wanted to do for the world, um, people over profit, right. So there was a little shift that happened, um, and and and that just it.
Speaker 2:It it's just not me, yeah, right, um, I do believe, just not me, yeah, right, um, I do believe, uh, elliot hill the new ceo, um is a very people over profit person legend man, right, yeah, um, but he's the ceo reporting to wall street, to millions of shareholders, right, right. So how does he and that's the challenge of uh of Hill being a CEO of like, how do you serve the people and this is where I would approach it, because those people are also shareholders, shareholders are also people. So, if you can get those shareholders to believe right back to that deep belief and how strong belief is that your focus is them and inspire them to believe in themselves that they are athletes too, yeah, asterisk, right, elite athlete, everyday athlete, uh, believe in themselves that they are athletes too, and then enable them, with the product, the services experiences, to, to get on that pursuit and to find their inner athlete. Yeah, and you know, because you're you, you have been a professional athlete, right, you know that, um, and even if you hadn't gone to, if you decided to, you know, if you decided to, you know to have gone uh business after you know, leaving Stanford instead of you know, continuing to pursue the uh sports, you would have taken all of that knowledge of, of, of what you learned in athletics and teams and sport, and all of that and apply them to business. You still do Um. So there's a relationship that that nike was building with with everybody, and I've I've had thousands of conversations with everyday athletes and I've even people that hadn't uh competed um but are now running like they know what. That, the relationship between those things, um and so uh. So that that that people over profit and and for nike and how they approach and how elliot's going to approach um and how I think he he will be approaching because it's who he is, um, but it is a challenge for a ceo, yeah, but I think it's just, it's back to that belief. But believing in um, in yourself, getting the company, in this case nike, to believe in themselves again, um, but but for the bigger goal, what's the moonshot right? So what's uh?
Speaker 2:When I was there, I knew my uh. So the first 10 years I was at nike was nike basketball. Um, like epic, right, like, uh, what an amazing era. I knew that my role was to design some of the basketball shoes, right, I mean working with scotty tippin and like kg and amazing gary payton and jason kidd like I. It was amazing. I knew my role was that, yeah, but I also, at the same time, uh, just as clearly, uh and impactfully knew, knew my responsibility was that, as the greater collective of the basketball team, was to grow the culture of the sport.
Speaker 2:Right, I did not care. Honestly, I did not care if a kid found his or her way into the game. Hopefully, you know, nike was doing some things to to create those, those pathways. But if they went to found the game and then needed to get some shoes, went to the retail, got some for wear. However, they got them and they had three stripes on them. They had Adidas shoes. Fuck, yes, love that First experience with basketball. Get you some basketball shoes.
Speaker 2:I did not care what brand it was. I want you to fall in love with the game and I and Nike, and that's what we wanted, you know, kids to do. Now, my, my role and my, my job was to make sure the next time they go to, not so they fall into love, yeah, the next time they go to get a pair of shoes, they spend a little bit more time and like, hey, which one am I going to get? Oh, those ones are, I think are cooler than those, or I like those both. They're two different brands, let me try them both on then like, oh well, these are the ones that you know, these feel better, these run better, whatever, like that was.
Speaker 2:My job was to make that decision for the you know. Help make that decision to help grow profit, to be able to put more uh into, into the um, uh, the opportunity to continue to grow the culture of the of, of of the sport. That was underneath an even bigger umbrella of growing, uh, the culture of sport, uh, which is what Nike was doing. It didn't matter who you bumped into. It was kind of like that proverbial story about JFK going to the moon and bumping into the janitor in the hallway and like, hey, what are you doing? He's like what does it look? Like I'm doing? I'm helping get a man on the moon as he's sweeping the floors. That was the vibe at Nike, didn't matter. And they have a challenge. People say that the shift, the cultural shift, happened by scale, and that happens all the time with big companies. I personally disagree with that. There are a number of different things that I saw happen and believe could have been avoided or just done differently, because not everybody was an athlete Dude, I didn't.
Speaker 2:I competed in soccer because it was free and I could walk to practice. My father was a preacher. I had duct tape on my soccer shoes, like you know. I got one pair of shoes a year for anything for sports school, church, you know, for anything for, for, uh, sports school, church, you know, uh. And then the soccer shoes, you know you know toes going out the front of them because they had the last multiple seasons, like um. So that was my only competition and I raced BMX too, but that was a kind of separate competition but uh. But I played the game of basketball almost uh, every day growing up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I say the game. I didn't compete in the sport, I played the game Right Cause you, you played the game too Right, you, you tweak the rules like I did Right, right, we all did Right, because we're playing the game, yeah, uh, so the, the, the competition of the sport, is something different and that to me, like that's the also a little bit of the cultural shift that was happening and is still happening and, unfortunately, I don't know you'd be, it'd be fun to get your side on this with the whole NIL and like now, what is Nike's responsibility to bring back? To bring back the opportunities and exposures of the games to the youth and create the opportunities and exposures to enable those games to be organized into sports so the youth continue to play them. Yeah, but I'd say that the, the opportunities and exposures we were talking about earlier, right with just, uh, recess, recess, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So what is nike doing, even if it's in its own backyard? I'm not just, you know, talking about nike. I'm not gonna do any any brand that that is trying to sell you a pair of athletic shoes. What are they doing to inspire and enable the activity that you're going to be doing? Those in and like that that is now. Well, it's now elliot's um and I'm, and I can I believe I can say this uh about him because I, I, I know him, uh and believe in him and what he, uh, what he does on his own is on his own time. So what I believe he's going to be doing for Nike is to create these opportunities and exposures and enablements for kids to be active and to do things, and then like, oh, now I need footwear and apparel to do them in and he's got to lead, you know, teams to be able to make the world's best. Yeah, um, and uh, I'm gonna say world's best, both. You know design, form and function. You know the aesthetic and the performance. It's all symbiotic, all fits together. Yeah, um. So that's, that's the um, the bigger.
Speaker 2:All the way back to the original question about this purpose path that I'm on that's my goal is to help people get on a pursuit to find their best self. I believe athletics is part of that, play being the foundation of it. That is part of that play being the foundation of it, um, and then you know playing games that are then organized as a sport, and then you know if you get fortunate enough and if you're gifted enough you know, up to a higher and elite, elite level. But it's, it's all.
Speaker 2:It's all a relationship with um, with what I just call is athletics, um, or even broader human performance, yeah, in that, and I've had sport in my life and I know what that can do for for people, um, but I would also get like just movement, like I don't. I told I've I've I've been in situations where people ask me what's it like working with you, know an athlete like take us through the process, or what's it like working with you know an athlete like take us through the process, or what's it like? And I'm like it's literally the same process as if I would work with a fifth grade student and I don't even know what they do yet.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they even play sports or compete in sports, if they just play like whatever, like let's sit down and design a shoe and first find out, like, do they want to design, design it? Is it a one-of-one for them or do they have an insight? Like we talked about with serena and dominican, where it's a one in a million, like, oh, my god, like, that fifth grader is a really cool idea. That is, um, I think there might be a million fifth graders out there that have like the same desire, yeah, and we could create something. But that that process is no, no different, um, and that's that's what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Uh, and I see human performance. Like you start with the, um, the human body. I like have this vision of, like, how I go about creating um is is starting with the, with the, the human body, bare naked, uh, uh, and there's things that we can do to augment ourselves, uh, by putting things on top of our body, and there's things that we do to put inside our body and things that we do with our body, yeah, right To, to take us to wherever we want to go, whatever field that is, if we want, if we want to augment, if I want to augment my body on top of my skin to be able to play the game of football and then augment my body with what I put into my body to be able to play the game of football and to get to where I want to go. Nfl there's a process to all that and there's things I can do. Nfl like there's a process to all that and there's things I can do. Um, that's no different than if you just want to, you know, have a happy life and be able to comfortably and and physically, uh, painlessly walk to the grocery store or even drive to the grocery store shop, get home, put groceries away, like that's the same athleticism. So, that field of play, whether it's your own home, your living room or the nfl football field, I don't care. Yeah, I want, I want to enable you to, to pursue and achieve your best self as an nfl football player. And that's why, like, sitting down with you and we did um, give you everything I have in that moment to inspire you to like, be able to like, then take it and do whatever you want to do with it. Yeah, same thing with anybody else I meet and then what they want to do with it, um to be their best self. So that's my purpose path.
Speaker 2:Uh, I was blessed, um, to to have found a company, a brand like nike, that, uh, that was on that same path, right, and that we walked together, um, ran very fast together for 25 years, right, and it's a long time and I would still be there if I, if, if I believe, if, if there wasn't a shift. Yeah, and I'm trying to like and it's hard, you know, because I got bills to pay, I got, you know, family to feed. But, to you know, back to like, you know my own brand, my own values of like, and I'm fortunate enough to still be, you know, knock on wood, to you know, have clients that find me, and you know, but it's also like I have I, there are opportunities that have been and currently are, that that want to do things that I'm like feels a lot like a foot covering Right, not a, not a piece of performance footwear that I want to be a part of, right, not a piece of performance footwear that I want to be a part of. And when I say performance footwear, again, I don't care if it's a track spike for an Olympic athlete or a cleat for an NFL football player that, hopefully, will then transcend down to a kid just his first game of football. That was the power of Nike and that's what I still want to be a part of, um, and I and I do have some of those opportunities.
Speaker 2:Um, or if it's a, you know, some people say is a lifestyle shoe, yeah, um, it's not going to be a foot covering. If I'm designing it Right, right, right, right and like it's going to help you and it's going to help enable somebody like they're like, oh, that that looks cool. Yeah, I see a reflection of myself in that product. Yeah, so I, I am attracted to to go pick it up. Oh, wow, that feels cool. Yeah, feels good. Never felt anything like that before. I wonder what it feels like to go on my foot. I put it on now I'm like, oh, like I can go places in these shoes. Yeah, right, like I, they feel like me, they feel like they inspire and enable me to go do what I want to do and, if that is, go to school, be more comfortable at school, school, walk the hallway more proudly, yeah, like I'm good, you know I love that man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that, and I think, like you know, what you laid out is, the unlock is for you has been to stay on your purpose path, and that was both going into Nike and coming out of it. It was staying on your path and staying true to what you want to accomplish, what you've defined, and helping people realize the best version of themselves, and I love the idea of, like, building your brand around around that principle in itself. And I saw you. You're rocking the. You're rocking the shoes that you uh oh yeah, you have designers uh well, that's actually funny.
Speaker 2:Um because this?
Speaker 1:is the high school hallway.
Speaker 2:This is a brand, yeah, no, it is not purposely. Wore this t-shirt if it came up, because t-shirts are a conversation piece and Portland gear and so, yeah, marcus Harvey, yeah, shout out to him, he'd be great. Went on here too Is yeah, so I designed these without intent. Like I've been to I've been to so many convention centers of you know, volleyball courts or, as far as you can see, basketball courts uh, you know, been to high school hallways and, um, like, getting kids, uh, in in high school or um, uh, so, students, high, uh, high school students or high school athletes more comfortable, feeling more confident, like that's where these are at.
Speaker 2:Like some people might say they're just like, you know, mules, whatever. Well, great, you know, and mules are popular right now. Yeah, so maybe somebody is like, oh, they look soft, they look, they look cool, try them on. You know, we have to create those opportunities for people to to try them on, which Marcus is doing at the retail, and then, once they put them on, I want that, like, ooh, it's different, these are kind of nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, I could get that run of the, get that little bit of like oh you know, it's not around the mule. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:That's like I'm dumb right there let's sell that one to marcus, uh, but yeah, so that's, that's, that's. This is actually a good example I was just walking through. So if, uh, yeah, if I can help an uh, a student student feel more confident, be more comfortable, that's what I want to do. It's beautiful, man, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:And, like I said, you've inspired me in a lot of the work that I've done and a lot of the work that I've done and I'm glad to be able to have you in this space to do our best to try to bottle some of that inspiration. Yeah, I appreciate it. And then you share it on your Instagram and obviously are out in the community and people can talk and work with you. So you're giving that to the world, but I appreciate you being here to help us share with the world as well.
Speaker 2:That's part of my biggest challenge now is because Nike has a reach maybe bigger than anybody, uh, earlier on, when they, when they looked to uh designers or or employees to to share their story, yeah, um, I was very fortunate to be one of the few to be able to do that, um, so I have countless stories, uh, and some actually are now employees at nike, um, that I met, uh or or reached out to me, wrote handwritten letters to me before email there are emails to me wrote, then direct message me over instagram, and, and one in particular, chad troyer, who would also be great on this uh wrote me a letter in seventh grade, uh, and yet he's now 34 and he's like an uncle to my kids, um and uh. And so now my challenge is like, how do I? It's that reach right? So instagram you know, I have a fairly good reach on instagram. You got a great job and nothing but, but I'm like and it's like in the hundreds.
Speaker 1:I saw your, your account, one of the hundreds. Yeah, now it's 23 000 yeah well, but that's my blessing.
Speaker 2:uh, that's where I like I don't know how, because, honestly, like this is not, like being in the spotlight is not, is not comfortable for me. Um, but I do it because I want to. I because I do want to help more people. I think I have some, and so how, how to be? And I don't have a ton of time. I'm not very good at Instagram, I don't have a ton of time to invest in it. Uh, so how do I try to find these opportunities to be able to have more reach, to connect with more people? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well that's where I like to. We're a bigger, we're a more powerful collective right.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. A hundred percent. We're better together. That's one of our big yard academy principles. I agree it's a big yard academy, yeah, cohort number one right here, class of 2024. But uh, well, I appreciate you coming by. Man. This is, uh, yeah, season three, b-scar tv, so we're honored to have you. I love it. I love it, thank you, my dog appreciate it, man. Yeah, till next time, y'all, thank you.