B Scar TV Podcast
Hi-Quality conversations with your favorite creators, thought leaders, and cultural tastemakers - hosted by Brennan Scarlett.
B Scar TV Podcast
How a Renowned Artist and an NFL Linebacker formed an inspiring friendship
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’Til next time... Peace ✌️
Welcome everyone. I'm Jordan Schnitzer and we're delighted, on behalf of all of us in our art program and the Jordan Schnitzer Museum of Art at Portland State, that you're all here on actually a better day than the last couple days. And before we talk briefly about Derek Adams, the amazing artist that he is, I want to first really give a tip of the hat to Ann Cudd, president Ann Cudd of Portland State. So stand up a second so people can see you. You know, being president of any university during these times is difficult, especially in Oregon, where we, like many states, have some budget issues. But the good news is she's a firm believer, as is her husband, neil, in the arts, and to have a president that really, truly doesn't just give lip service but really believes in the importance of art on a campus, it's really a wonderful, delightful thing. So thank you for that.
Speaker 4:Second, I want to talk about Mariana here, okay, because not only is she dressed perfectly for this exhibition called Color Outside the Lines, but she's just done a bang-up job with her staff in coming up with these creative exhibitions. She's had a number of them that have toured from our collection around the country, but this one she came to me and talked about the theme of this and I said go at it. And she delved into all those 22,000 works and came up with a really impressive show. That I think for any of you who've seen it and those of you who haven't, shame on you, but the good news is it's still there for you. It's a fascinating collection of work that just visually takes your breath away and thematically grabs you and makes you think so. To Mariana, your team, your team of five people that work harder than any museum staff in the country. Thank you for all you do for Portland State and the community.
Speaker 4:And about Derek Adams I saw his work first at Tandem Press and the new director of Tandem Do you want to stand up a second here? Tandem is at the university. So the University of Madison, wisconsin, has had a print publishing, in essence business as part of the university. And Paula Pachenko, who just retired after 34 years, unbelievable leader in the print world, amazing person, wonderful party that she had. We've got a great new leader, but they somehow she's had and I hope you have as good an eye as she has an ability to attract the rising stars in the art world. And for those of us, because there obviously are thousands and thousands of artists. Tandem Press is in a canny way, just like Gemini and some of the other print publishing businesses, of bringing to folks like me and all of you amazing talent, and that's when I first started collecting Derek Adams' work.
Speaker 4:Now I think many of you know that in our collection we've had 180 exhibitions at 120 or 130 museums. We have eight shows traveling right now. We've had 180 exhibitions at 120 or 30 museums. We have eight shows traveling right now, and of those shows we've done more exhibitions of women, of artists of color, hispanic and dead and alive white guys and gals. And I'm certainly not comparing ourselves to the amazing institutions like the Broad Museum that had Mickling Thomas' huge show. That's now at the Barnes that I went to last Friday night. Her work is just staggering. I mean I didn't want to collapse in front of the crowd there, but looking at your work it just takes my breath away. And we were lucky to have all of your prints and wonderful painting.
Speaker 1:Very good, very good work.
Speaker 4:And when she heard that her best buddy, derek, was coming to Portland, where she did work for seven years at Davis Wright Tremaine, until she visited the Portland Art Museum and saw a show of Carrie Mae Weems and suddenly the light went off and said you want to be an artist? And found yourself a prat with Mel Bochner that we just had his work up. She said I want to come too. So she came on out and we're taking him back to New York tomorrow. But thank you for coming to Portland and thanks for being the artist you are. So what's interesting, I think, is, as many of you know, the amazing show at the Oregon Historical Society about the fountain of creativity, about my mother's fountain gallery of art years, and they've done just a smash-up job with the way they curated that show. Megan the Curator, and please get over and see that the second half of the show opened up last week. Megan the curator, and please get over and see that the second half of the show opened up last week. We're having an amazing opening, december 14th. You're all welcome, bring guest friends from 11 to 5, food celebration, amazing exhibition and at our Schnitzer Collection Space, where today the link and the when ladies of color at the University of Oregon weren't allowed to join white sororities. They had their own sorority that Kamala Harris belonged to in a different university. So there are 80 of those ladies at our collection space today celebrating, and they've made a number of visits to our collection space.
Speaker 4:But I think while I started collecting prints and multiples of the major post-World War II artists, now, in addition to still filling in the open spots there, we've collected probably more of the greatest artists of our time like these two. The majority of those folks are folks of color and I think it's fascinating and appropriate because for too many decades in museums across the country, artists like you didn't have your chance to have your voice, your work, on those walls, and I think some of the most important work being done today is by art voices that weren't able to be heard in some times past. And the work that you're doing, that you're doing, derek, that we have up there is just incredible and we just so appreciate your helping all of us understand better ourselves, your legacy, your history, our history, our legacy, and if we look around the country today. I won't get into the partisan politics right now or there wouldn't be time for the rest of the talk today, but I think most of us are so frustrated by the partisan divide, and this happens when people don't understand each other and don't talk to each other. And if there's one group that is so good at bringing us together and hitting us with themes that are difficult, but in a way that takes our heart and mind and soul and lets us examine ourselves, our values and those of others and understanding others and understanding others, it's artists.
Speaker 4:So you're just a critical part of the need today of our bridging, I think, the depths of things that none of us ever imagined in terms of society and, I think, especially for younger people. When you think about the grade school kids, they get to be third, fourth, fifth grade and begin to be aware of the world around them more. Think about the images, the messages, the voices they are hearing on TV and across the country. So, at least in my own way, because my program is all about the art and the audience, we're helping get these important voices out to speak, especially to young people and all of us, from two to 102. So with that, thank you all for coming.
Speaker 4:Derek Adams, we're going to hear a wonderful interview. Born in 1970, ends up at Pratt Columbia, teaches at CUNY, brooklyn, started a wonderful non-profit in Baltimore maybe we'll hear about that and I think is an artist that's able to in prints, paintings, videos, multimedia take his innermost thoughts, fears, passions and present those in the wonderful mediums that he has. I'm lucky outside my office I see the what's it called Catherine Malone, the mirrored one.
Speaker 1:Stunning.
Speaker 4:Mirroring idealism. So any of you that want to come to my office and look outside I get to see that all day long and it's inspiring to me and very clever the way you did that. So with that, let's hear from the man himself and appreciate all of you coming and continue to support that. Let's hear from the man himself and appreciate all of you coming and continue to support arts, arts education, and visit the Portland State Jordan Schnitzer Museum of Art so you can see the wonderful exhibition that Marianne and her team put together. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, jordan, you're the best. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Well, jordan, I would like to thank you. We are so fortunate our museum, our university and our city to have Jordan as a supporter in all different ways. He supports not just arts, but we are incredibly lucky to have you here. So thank you so much for your continued support of everyone here. Thank you, I would also like to recognize we had multiple supporters for this talk as well as the exhibition, including Jordan Schnitzer and the Harold and Arlene Care Foundation, richard and Helen Phillips Charitable Fund, elements Roofing and the JSMA Exhibition Circle, which is a group of our community members who really support and believe in what we're doing here at the university. Also, as our audience members can see, we are recording this conversation and it will be uploaded to the museum's YouTube page eventually and parts of it may also be added to the B-Scar TV podcast, which leads me to the introduction of our first guest here.
Speaker 2:Brennan Scarlett spent the first seven years of his professional career as an NFL linebacker, playing for the Houston Texans and Miami Dolphins. He is the founder and president of the Big Yard Foundation, a Portland-based organization dedicated to empowering historically underserved neighborhoods through education, creativity and physical wellness, and he is also the CEO of Scarlet Creative Co. A creative agency specializing in high-quality storytelling through social media management and production. Please join me in welcoming Brennan Scarlet, and I forgot to mention he is a Portland native as well.
Speaker 4:Thank you as well. Thank you.
Speaker 2:As Jordan did mention some of Derek Adams' background. He is an acclaimed multidisciplinary artist living and working in Brooklyn. His work celebrates and expands the dialogue around contemporary black life and culture through scenes of normalcy and perseverance. In 2022, adams established Charm City Cultural Cultivation I did practice saying that multiple times A nonprofit organization to support and encourage underserved communities in the city of Baltimore. His installation Eye Candy is currently on view next door at the JSMA at PSU as part of the exhibition Color Outside the Lines from the Collections of Jordan D Schnitzer and His Family Foundation. Please join me in welcoming Derek Adams.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:So, brennan, to start off, can you tell me how you and Derek met?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Derek and I met when I was in Miami. I was playing for the Miami Dolphins, and Art Basel comes to Miami in December, and I actually had gotten injured towards the end of the season and so I had a few weeks off. I was trying to recover, and so I was able to attend some of the Basel events and the parties Can you tell people here what Art Basel is like in Miami?
Speaker 2:I am also. I moved here from Miami as well, so what's it like for someone that might know that? Oh, man.
Speaker 3:Art Basel is incredible. All types of walks of life, all types of professions, people from all around the world come to Miami to appreciate and experience art. From all around the world come to Miami to appreciate and experience art. Right, and Jordan said it right, artists have a unique way to bring everybody together and Miami's such a diverse place. You know you got musicians out there, you got, you know the artists, you got athletes, and everybody's coming together just to have a good time. And so, yeah, that was Art Basel. Did you? And where did you meet?
Speaker 2:at one of the parties or at the convention center? Yeah, that was Art Basel. Did you meet at one of the parties or at the convention center?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Derek was in conversation with Larry Osa Mensah, who has since become a good friend, and they had a conversation at one of the events. This was my first exposure to art and after they were done speaking, I went up, introduced myself, told Derek what I did and was just curious. I was like, hey, man, I would love to come visit your studio sometime. And Derek was really welcoming and he was like yeah, whenever. And so the next week we had a bye week, which means we didn't have a game. So I flew up to New York the next week and did a studio visit and we've been good friends ever since.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was really interesting too, because I was there, um, I was commissioned to make a nft. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I still got that. Yeah, yeah, I still got that, yeah and nft was part of a invitation of sorts to people who were invited to this tech related uh event and I forgot what the event was it was Andreessen.
Speaker 3:Horowitz yes, yeah, clf one.
Speaker 1:And so we, you know, as an artist, artists are always interested. I'm the kind of artist who's always interested in non-art people, so especially someone who's like in a total polar opposite of what I do personally. So when I met Brennan at the event, and I was always curious for someone who is not in the field of art, who's interested in art, because for me it's like I know why I'm interested in art because I'm an artist and, you know, once you become an artist, you become surrounded by creatives who kind of speak your language. But when you meet someone who's not an artist, I'm always just really interested in what made you come here. You know what made you care, what made you interested. And when we met, he was, you know, really interested in asking like really interesting questions about art.
Speaker 1:And I know that artists are also interested in sports and there's a relationship between the two, and so it was just a natural progression that we became more, uh, closer as friends and, and you know, him coming to New York was also exciting because I introduced him to other artists. We went by the studios of artists who were equally excited to see you because you're an athlete, and so it was super cool because everyone had this kind of really interesting interest in each other. Like the artist is interested in the athlete, the athlete is interested in the artist and what they do, and so it was like an interesting beginning for me as well as an artist, to create that space.
Speaker 3:We visited Jerome Legarese.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 3:He had a fireplace in there. Oh yeah, it was a vibe. Yeah, it was cool.
Speaker 1:It was cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, had a view of the Statue of Liberty in South Brooklyn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I want to do a show where I just go to people's studios with you. It was good, yeah, it was good, it was good yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and that was one of the things I thought was really exciting. So we're a young museum, We've only been open just over five years, and so when I reached out to your studio to say, like you know, I was like how can I lure him here? And I was like you can do anything a talk, a lecture, a panel, you know, a conversation and I feel like immediately, you know, I got a response back I want to be in conversation with Brennan Scarlett, and so I just think that that's such a cool testament to your friendship and your interest in things outside of art as well. So, thank you.
Speaker 3:It's an honor man.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. I always like to be when I'm invited to come to cities I've never been to or I didn't grow up in. I always think about people who are way more familiar with the culture of the city to be in conversation with, because I think it creates more of a genuine dialogue of both my perspective, but also a perspective that's connected to the audience who is at the conversation at the top.
Speaker 2:Great. Well, you have both founded community-based organizations in your respective hometowns Derek, you established Charm City Cultural Cultivation in Baltimore, and Brennan you founded the Big Yard here in Portland. Can you each tell?
Speaker 3:us about your foundations and what inspired you to create them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I founded the Big Yard Foundation in 2018. I was born and raised here in North Portland, you know, and I had a ton of support with my community as I grew up and when I left Portland to go to school, I went down to the Bay Area and was there at school for five years and I would come back every maybe six weeks and I saw the community that I was from change Right North and northeast Portland historically has been the concentration of our black and brown communities, and when I was coming back, I saw these new restaurants popping up on MLK and high rise apartments and the area started to look better. But I started to learn that a lot of the community that I'd grew up in and supported me had been displaced to the East side or out to the far West side, and so and I'd started my professional career in the NFL and reached the pinnacle of my dreams, right to be an NFL football player. And I look back to realize what allowed me to do that. It was all the support that I had from that community, and so it empowered me and I said, all right, well, how can I give that same type of privilege and support back to the community and back to the kids who are coming up now, and the Big Yard Foundation was born. Back to the community and back to the kids who are coming up now. And the Big Yard Foundation was born. And so we empower our youth and community through education, creativity and access to sport.
Speaker 1:Thank you, that's great. I think when I meet people I'm a pretty good judge of character and when we first met we started talking. You know we were just talking about different things and just learning your interests in the community. I kind of felt that you were, you know, more than just an athlete like you're. You know, I've met being an artist and working, being around different types of people, not that there is anything particularly negative about just focusing on just one thing, but I also don't focus on one thing. And so when we started meeting, when we first met and just a little bit of conversation we had, I realized that you were more of not just a athlete but a humanitarian and your interest was not just centered around what you expected for yourself but also the things that your aspirations for your community. And I learned more about the things that you were interested in through talking about your organization and I was, you know, again, willing to support it with donating prints.
Speaker 1:But I just like the idea that you know we are products of our community but we also can succeed in things that we aspire to have as individuals, without necessarily forgetting about where we came from or the people that kind of helped us to get to the place where we occupy. You know, and that's what happened with my nonprofit in Baltimore Uh, in 2019, I purchased a house, uh, near an area called Waverly, which is near Johns Hopkins, and I first purchased the property before even thinking about a nonprofit. I purchased a property thinking, you know, coming back living in Brooklyn since 1993, but still being very connected to my hometown of Baltimore, I would go and stay at my parents' house consistently throughout my time, on the couch mostly, and you know all the, you know success and everything. I would just still sleep on the couch and I would say to myself my parents are here, they know about that.
Speaker 3:They know about that.
Speaker 1:And one day I was like, why are you sleeping on the couch? Like go get a house or something. While you're here, you know, like you're a grown up and you know, although I enjoy like being fed and sleeping on my mom's couch, and all those things, I realized that I needed like a real home base. Coming from New York, which is really busy and transitioning to being around my family, which was a different way of thinking, and so I purchased a property and I was, uh, and the property is rather large. And then I had and it was inexpensive at the time and then I started to acquire some of the lots around the property, um, that were empty. And so once I started to do that, I eventually had the property fenced in, um, because it was, so you know, about an acre at some point at this point in the middle of town. And then it was during the pandemic.
Speaker 1:I started going to Baltimore just to get away and be outside, because I had all this land around the house. And one day I was walking around the house and having in the morning, having coffee. I was walking around the grounds and I said to myself this is too good to cue to myself like. This is too good, like it was really amazing to have this much property in the middle of the city and I knew I wasn't going to move back home to Baltimore. But I knew that the house would be much more valuable if it was shared with other people, and so the non nonprofit started off more like just inviting people. Before the nonprofit I started inviting artists to come stay at the house and then I would have caterers or yoga instructors and different people would come and do all these different things for people, and it was just things I was paying for out of my pocket, just doing it. And then one time, I think, my lawyer at the time said to me stop spending your own money on this. Are you crazy? You're going to go broke. So then you know, they convinced me to think about it more of a way that it could be supported not just by me, by people who also felt the need that this was necessary. And then we became it became a nonprofit.
Speaker 1:The first organization is called Last Resort Artist Retreat, which is like a four week residency where creatives who are writing, visual artists, musicians, different people come, they meditate, they basically it's like a bed and breakfast kind of retreat type of thing and it kind of extended beyond my own personal interests into more community and it started like that and then it kind of grew into other things that were like a digital database for archiving local citizens material, and then Zura's Den, which is like a black woman's writing publishing house that we do books every year, then we do writing workshops and we invite other writers to come to read. So it became like this way, bigger thing than it started off as being, like this, very small and I will say it's a lot of work and I, if I'd known what I know, I probably wouldn't have done it, but I did it. It happened more organically than I. Didn't think about what I wanted to do before I did it. I just thought about what was necessary and what was missing and I just did that thing.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of grew into this other thing, into the other thing, and now it's like a you know a bigger thing. But not having a nonprofit is really really a lot. You know a lot of work and it's really, I think it's more than a corporate job, way more, because whatever your title is, you're gonna be doing other titles. So don't think as your title director, you're gonna be just doing directing. You might be bopping the floor, so I'm just saying you know?
Speaker 3:so it's like that type of thing um, what's fascinating is that when we were at jerome's studio, you that was 2021 and you were kind of tossing around the idea of the last resort, yeah, and you were talking to jerome and I about like, yeah, I'm thinking about some, about a retreat for an artist, that it's more like leisure, right it's? You know, you're relaxing, you're not forced to work, you can work if you want, you can paint if you want, but you know and this was like the seed of the idea, so it's beautiful to see how it's come, you know, into fruition and, you know, manifestation now in 2024. So, commend you for the work that's been, that's been done.
Speaker 1:Thank you so. So how does your how your organization operate like what is the basic format? I know you have like events, you have other community related things like well, first off, uh, I have an incredible team.
Speaker 3:so I would point to meryl shawnee uh, my mom back here, suzy, who who's here? I mean, I have an incredible team and that's how it operates. You know, Like you know, they get fed up with me sometimes because I have these ideas and then I kind of expect us to just like, yeah, we're going to get it done. You know, and kind of drive it, and you know we do community events, which that's our community engagement strategy. You know, to bring the community events, which are that's our community engagement strategy to bring the community together and togetherness. So, with our Big Yard Studio event, which you've donated work to, to bring the community together under art and be inspired and informed by other artists and their work, support programming, which is our Big Yard Academy, which is a two-week flag football STEAM education camp for middle school kids, and then a mentorship program that goes throughout the school year to support with their homework help but also exposing them to role models, like the University of Portland students that we work with.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Now, you both mentioned your family a little bit. Did this desire to give back? Is that something that was instilled in you when you were younger through your families, or is this something that you've kind of grown into now that you're older? I have a young son, so I'm asking for a friend.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I have a really large family, so if I was just focused on them it would be enough.
Speaker 1:But I think it's become more of like once you become like.
Speaker 1:Once I went to college, once I started to understand how community is built through my relationship with the academic world, my relationship with the academic world, I realized that there are things that need to be in place in order to secure the future of society. And it's really like thinking about the way that, you know, we think about ancient society or you think about modern society. I mean, going to school really taught me more about how to bring it back to Baltimore in a more strategic way, because my family, my large family, my mom, had, uh, 10 siblings. We were already doing social practice. Because you know, when you grow up, like in the church and it's like all these people and you're like keep doing dinners and doing all these different things, like that's like a social practice approach without being called social practice. But I think that the thing that was a more the non-beneficial part of that experience is thinking that these things you do, that you might not get any benefit from it, like that's the part that I kind of grew up with, this like idea of like doing this thing that you may never get thanked for or you may never benefit from, or being okay with not getting acknowledgement for it. You know those things that you kind of learn on a more humble level with religion and these big families.
Speaker 1:But I learned, you know, just from the academic structure of how communities are established and how legacy is created, and that was really more like looking at artists that I was interested in, looking at writers.
Speaker 1:I was interested in how they created things and thought about death early.
Speaker 1:You know, like a lot of intellectual people thought about like when they would die, like what would be left or what would you know those things that I think that most people think that the reward is after you die. But I think that it could be it's still gonna be after you die but it could benefit other people in a way that carries on a structure that is important. And so the non-profit idea, as it relates to what I I was thinking, was more about, um, like creating a dialogue of like how you can, how how each individual can impact culture that could collectively establish a way of thinking differently about yourself or your community by one person kind of starting it out, and so I thought about that and also think about that everything I'm doing could be re undone, you know, which is another part of, you know, being a philanthropic person. You could have this burning desire to do one particular thing and keep it like that, but once you're gone, you can't really control whoever's in charge of what you've left behind. So that's another reality of understanding that too.
Speaker 3:I think infrastructure is so important, right? It's like you know the way that the city operates, you know we got our roads and we got our schools and we got, you know, the hospitals, et cetera, and you know our society is built on the infrastructure that allows us to operate. So, to answer your question, like, yeah, my family was my whole infrastructure which allowed me to do the things that I wanted to do in life. But it was not just my family, right, that encouraged me to focus on my education and inspired me to go and chase my dreams. It was also the community that was around me, right? I had coaches and friends and extended family and teachers, you know, who really were my support system, and so that was kind of where the idea for the foundation came from.
Speaker 3:For me, it was like building onto the FEM, but then also the surrounding community that that was the infrastructure to allow me to go and pursue, right. And so you know that's what we try to build within our foundation is. You know how do we build that infrastructure of community so that you know, when kids come up in north and northeast Portland, that they have that right and if they don't, then the big yard can offer it to them, right, and so that's kind of how we think about it. But, to answer your question, the family, my family, when my parents are here, we're a huge influence in starting what we're doing.
Speaker 1:And I wanted to say it's really funny, I love what you were saying because it's hard for me to keep my family from helping me. No, it really is. I would save so much more money with a nonprofit if I let my family help me, because just the food alone, like my aunts would just bring the food over, like I mean so many things that I have to like say like I need to get some other people, you know, you know I'm trying to my family still are, you know, the important part of the building the community and in the non-profit, but like I could easily just have them doing it Like easily. You know, because they're always thinking of certain things. When they come to the house they say, oh, I could make these tablecloths. Or you know, some of my aunts come to the house and she like does like the finger across the furniture, she said who's cleaning? She was like they didn't do a great job.
Speaker 2:You know I get that type of thing like on a weekly basis from my aunt Family keeps you grounded. That's up very much. Well, you maybe touched a little bit on this, but I was really curious. Both of you again started these foundations when you're already at the height of your career. You didn't wait a little bit? You know you were still playing in the NFL when you founded the Big Yard. I'm a little curious how you manage all of these projects when you really potentially could really focus in on one thing and instead are adding on these kind of other pieces to your plate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm an idea man, I have a lot of ideas. Yeah, I'm an idea man, I have a lot of ideas, and so, whether I like it or not, I just can't focus on one thing. Like I always got something going right, and when a certain idea strikes me and I can't shake it, then I got to do it and it, you know, I can't shake it, then I got to do it, and yeah, so football was just one piece of my career, but the big yard became another and the creative endeavors became another. And then I realized that you know to kind of tie the art piece in, and why I've been so inspired by what Derek and Mickalene do and all these artists. What they do is because you know the light.
Speaker 3:Our life is a blank canvas. We have a lot of time. How are you paying your time? So I think about that a lot personally. How am I paying my time? Yeah, I'm playing football, but you know I want to give back to my community. So what's that look like? What's that stroke look like? Right, I want to create and self-express, you know, via visual content. What's that look like? And how do I build it into something where it can be sustainable and keep going right, um, and so it doesn't just flicker out right, kind of what derek was talking about. You know, when our time comes, that hopefully these things that we built continue to go on. So what's that?
Speaker 1:look like fantastic honestly, you know, I I definitely consider myself an ideas person and I think that I have a lot of different things I want to do. But I will say, as I'm getting older, I think I could do one thing. Um, I really do. I think I really want to do one thing more. I do like the idea of passing things on to other people. I'd like the idea of cultivating and creating the framework, the outline, the blueprint, and just hand it over a new idea or a new structure to someone to continue, because the interpretation of what you do sometimes is shifted through the way that other people interpret something that is very clear to you as the creator. But you know, and also there are people who will work with you, or people who apply for a job and like I totally love what you're doing, this is amazing. And then they get the job. They're like well, actually, I don't really like what you were doing, and these are some things that I think could change. But in the interview they love it, and they love it for a little while and then they realize that their idea might be, even though the idea has never been tried before, or they have no evidence of success with the idea, they have a better idea, uh, you know, and uh, and that happens a lot, you know, um and I think it's a generational thing um, than it is, uh, anything else, because there's so much more motivation about entrepreneurship and people creating an idea and idea.
Speaker 1:You know, like I say to people all the time, when people have an idea, I said write out a proposal for what you're thinking. And that never happens. When you tell someone who comes to you and says I have an idea, I say write it out, write out all the details of the idea and then present it to me in a proposal and then we can talk about it. That rarely happens. Usually, people who say they have an idea, they think that the idea is supposed to just come to fruition just because they have an idea. When you start telling people to write down their idea, write a one-pager or a two-pager on that, then the idea falls flat.
Speaker 1:And so I think that, for me, is I don't want to do a lot of things. I mean, when I was younger, when I was your age, I try to do everything. I try to do all these things and you know, but as I get older, I realize that there is so much nuance in what I have been doing as an artist that I find like I need more time for that and I want to be more and focused on that and that will fuel and support the things that I pass on to other people to do. That's how I feel now, but when I first and this has all happened like in the past five to seven years of me thinking this at first I wanted to be like involved in everything, and now I feel a little opposite because I'm realizing that my time like when I wake up in the morning to the time I go to sleep is limited and I was a person who would do a lot of different things during the day, but I realized that I really want to focus on my art. You know and it's funny because you know, I've been getting a lot of support for my non-profits and I and I remember having a conversation with uh dean hagag and uh at melon and we received a pretty generous uh donation from the organization for non-profit and I was telling her I was like, yeah, I'm really tired, you know, I think I'm going to focus on my work.
Speaker 1:She was like no, you can't like you're. So you're a new organization. You know you can't leave right now. You got to like be there for a while, see it through, make sure that it. You know, and that was a reality. That hit me and I realized that it's true.
Speaker 1:Like I have to see it through and I have to have, like you know, we have employees, I'd have meetings, I have to have evaluations, I have to all have all these things have to be on zooms, different things, and people don't realize that when you have an artist who on your board or an artist who is somehow affiliated with your organization, if they're on the zoom with you, that means they're not making art and the reason why you pick them is because they're an artist.
Speaker 1:So an artist is not necessarily an administrator.
Speaker 1:So unless there's a conversation about art in the board meeting, then you should not have an artist talking about what color to put the toilet in the bathroom or or the fiscal blah blah, if yet you know. I think artists should be invited when it pertains to their particular area of expertise and interest and not just having them on the board meeting for three hours when they're not painting, because we gotta do it like we have the profession, that we actually have to do the thing and even if we have assistance, we still got to be present to make the work. So we're on a board meeting from three to six or two to four or two to whatever. That means that we're not working in our studios, and that's the reason why you want us to be on the board is because we work as artists. So that's something that is really complicated about being an artist now, because artists are now business people and they're administrators and they have to do all these other things, but that means they're not working on their art as much you know definitely.
Speaker 2:Well, I know you both collect, oh yeah it's true, it's exhausting well, I love the idea that you're going to have even more output, so that's really exciting that you're able to focus on the art. I know you both collect art, though Could you tell me who's in your collection and who do you want to add to your collection?
Speaker 3:Well, derek's collection is a lot longer than mine, so I'll start. Well, first of all, there's an artist here Ryan Berkland is in my collection who is right there.
Speaker 3:RB local artist does really great work. Actually, the first piece that I collected, Derek introduced me to Raylis Vasquez, who's based out in Jersey, a Dominican artist who does really great work. I recently collected John Revis, who's also in Jersey, Dominican artist that is a mentee of Derek's, and Christina Martinez, Lauren Leavitt, Mario Joyce that's about the slate of it, but who I want to collect? Number one, Derek.
Speaker 1:Starting here, we got a payment plan. We got a payment plan, mick and.
Speaker 3:Lane Yu Yang is here. I'd love to collect Yu Yang I have Yu Yang in my collection.
Speaker 2:Oh, you do, I do Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yu Yang, go ahead, Raise your hand, raise your hand. Yeah, clap it up. Jeremy Okai has great, great work. I would love to collect him at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I have a lot of work. You know I've been in my younger years. I ran a gallery for 13 years. Rush Arts Gallery was in Chelsea. It was the third gallery in Chelsea. It opened in 1996.
Speaker 1:I started there as, like, a gallery manager and so in the time that I was a young artist, also curating, I had the opportunity and to work with a lot of artists. So artists that are really well known at this point, like Mickalene Thomas, simone Lee, mangeshi Mutu, nathaniel Marie Quinn, on and on I mean so many people that I had the privilege of working with and in some cases able to trade work with them, have their work. Right now I collect a lot of younger artist works or emerging artists from diverse backgrounds. But what I find the most to me, the most thing I'm proud about as an artist, is that now I'm at a place where I can actually buy a lot of the older black artists that I wish I could have bought when I was younger, and how grateful they are that you actually care enough to buy their work when you are at a place where you can buy anything and like reaching out to them directly or just reaching out to the gallery, the relationships that I had and I've collected a lot of like. I have, like ed clark, frank bowling, uh. Richard mayhew just passed, uh, emma amos, um, robert colescott, um, I don't know. I I just love it, I just love being able to have their work on my wall.
Speaker 1:And I remember a really great story during the pandemic. There was an artist, albert Chung. He's a photographer. He teaches at University of Colorado, colorado University. He was an artist that I saw in a book, like in the early 90s. He's a really great photographer. He does like double exposure photographs, like you know, ancestral things with different materials. And I happened to see a book of his work in the 90s when I was an undergrad and I never forgot it.
Speaker 1:And then during the pandemic is when people started, you know, staying at home and some people start buying work. I just reached out to him and I said you know, I wonder if you still have this photograph that I saw in the book in early nineties when I was at Pratt and I saw it and I was and I am hoping I can buy it from you now. And he said oh, my God, I can't believe that Derek Adams wants to buy my work. And then he said to me and I said this is the piece.
Speaker 1:And I sent him an image and he says he was like actually I have one photo printed from that series and it was from probably like the early 90s, and he said it's actually on my living room wall and I'm going to take it off and sell it to you. And then he sent it to me and I was like, wow, you know. So, you know, I always want to, you know, and I always will support, like emerging artists, you know, artists doing a lot of different things, but I think that, like I always admire people who, who collected, people who they considered masters, and I thought these artists are that and so, and they were affordable to me now.
Speaker 2:So that's like my new thing, you know fantastic, thank you, um, so we're going to get to the hard-hitting questions now. All right, you're getting ready for a road trip. You're going to drive Miami to Portland. All right, you're at the Love's Travel Center. Your partner's putting gas in the car. They have tasked you to get the snacks. What candy do you reach for?
Speaker 3:I'm going straight for the Caramello, oh.
Speaker 2:I was not expecting that. All right, all right.
Speaker 3:All right, it's a little rare, it's unique, but it's the milk chocolate and it's got the caramel feeling. It's a good one All right, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:That's a hard question. I always get like two. I always usually get one. Whatever I get, I always get salsa, because it like cleans my teeth after I'm eating all the stuff I shouldn't be eating. But normally I would get, like you know, some chips, of course, and some either like Sour Patch or some gummy type of thing. Gummies, that's my go-to, and that's usually the two things that I would get. Fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, that leads us into your amazing installation that we have up at the JSMA right now, and I invite our audience members, after this talk, to come look at it. We have a reception going on. The piece is called Eye Candy and, for those of you in the room, you can see on the back as well as the two TVs over there. But, brennan, I'm going to ask you, could you describe the work for us?
Speaker 3:All right, so Eye Candy. The backdrop is a semi-circle of a lollipop and we have six figures in their own frames, with different color jumpsuits on they're in a powerful posture, hands behind the back. Color jumpsuits on they're in a powerful posture, hands behind the back and they have a lollipop that is covering one eye and also covering a little bit of the afro that the figure is rocking and it's a very colorful piece. It's powerful. Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Derek, could you tell us a little bit like what you know? You've had that idea, I understand, for Eye Candy for several years before you were finally able to realize it. Could you tell me what first inspired? It and how it came to be?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, this piece is actually a piece that I had proposed to the Lower East Side Print Shop in my beginning experience of doing prints. In my beginning experience of doing prints Because in the beginning of my career as an artist, I was really more involved in creating installations than individual objects, so I'm always and working in a gallery kind of gave me more of a sensibility of installation approach, because as a director or someone who works in a gallery, you become really hyper aware of the way people enter the space and you also know like what wall is the money wall I call it the money wall and you know what wall people look at first. Like you know, you actually can control the way that people navigate through the space, based on different things, things, and so when I would I, when I first was, uh invited to do a print project, I really couldn't think of anything, one object that I wanted to produce. Over and over again and that was my, my challenge there I presented this first image, which was first a very small uh underwear ad that was in Ebony magazine and this particular figure was in the magazine and he was presenting these different color underwear and these are not the colors, but the colors had.
Speaker 1:They were like flavors, so they weren't like red, blue, they were like chocolate and, like you know, like peppermint, like that.
Speaker 1:It was very seductive and it was like, yeah, but it was like a little small, yeah, but it was like a little small ad. Right, it was like a little small ad in the thing and I thought, like this should be big, like this shouldn't be little, this should be a big ad because I think you know, this is so much more dynamic as a bigger image. So I redrew the image and I thought also I'm as a artist who kind of work with photography and images that are photo based or images from media I am more attracted to images where the black subject is directing their gaze to the audience, like look at me, I see you looking at me. Like that, like I'm less interested in images where the subject is like kind of away from the, the audience, or looking down or backwards or something like that, unless it's intentional, from the body of the participant, not the photographer. So I felt like this particular character he, he was, he was, he was holding the space like he was he had main character energy.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you know he had. Yes, exactly. So when I saw it I said this should be a big piece, and so I held on to the image. I kept doing other prints with uh, lower East Side Print Shop and other print shops and then I had the opportunity to do this piece with Tandem Press and I said I want it to be a big piece with wallpaper, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:It was like let's do it, and so eye candy for me was really more about what the subject was giving, and I wanted the lollipop pattern to almost seem like a hypnotic, a hypnosis of sorts, like when you look at those cartoons and they have like the little spiraling thing around. I wanted to have that feeling, and so it was great to work with Tandem because they helped me to really overly realized what I wanted to do, because the lollipop itself is like another collage on top of the face of the collage, which was another added element, and so all these different things that were applied in this. So the whole print itself and installation was a piece and everything was positioned and scaled to create something. But I also was really one of the artists that I really think about a lot when it comes to artists who really take full advantage of media and the way that people respond to it is Wohall and so he's an artist. I think about all the time when I think about how to present something like how to use media as an artist. Present something like how to use media as an artist how to?
Speaker 1:Because one thing I noticed when I both micheline and I are are now in the show at the foundation louis vuitton open two weeks ago, and there's a show about pop artists, and I don't necessarily consider myself a pop artist, but what I, what I did learn about being in the show of artists that consider pop forever, is that it's a difference between artists who are, like, focused on politics in their work as a particular viewpoint, but pop artists, I feel, presents everything as as politics.
Speaker 1:Like, politics is based on the observer's ability to understand what they're looking at and to understand the significance of every aspect that's being presented in an artwork that is considered pop art. So pop art is the politics of art. I realized that with this work and the way I was making work and the way I've been making work is that my work does not like pose a question or answer any question. It presents to you the things that I am looking at and the things that I'm interested in and the political attachments to those are the way that you look at it and the way you interpret it.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, Thank you. So this work is part of the exhibition Color Outside the Lines from the collections of Jordan D Schnitzer and his family foundation and in this exhibition I'm looking at how artists from marginalized communities are kind of reclaiming color over the past 24 years and really, you know, going very vibrant with their work. Could you talk a little bit about your color selection for Eye Candy and your overall approach to color in your art.
Speaker 1:Going back to the original image, which is again very small, it was like maybe two or three, maybe two inches maybe. I just thought that just the tonality of the figure, which in my particular piece, became a more saturated, more dense tone, and the color of the garment over the body amplified a certain color variation that I thought was really interesting and very provocative. And also, my dad used to wear these underwear. Yeah, he would you know he would wear these. It was like BVD underwear, if you would know what that is. It's like like a nylon underwear. He would wear these while he's cleaning the house. You know he would wear these underwear. He would you know he was.
Speaker 1:I had a young father and young mom and they were pretty hip, and my dad was a baker. He worked at a place called Smith's Bakery in Baltimore and he would clean the house. He would wear those underwear around the house. I remember he would even have because platform shoes were the style back then, so he like cut the backs of them out to wear them as slippers and he would cook and he would clean the house. And he, you know he had his look. You know he had like a homemade, like like stocking cap, pantyhose thing on his head, and that's what the piece reminded me of. It reminded me of like a time where it was not about the way that people looked at you, like a time where it was not about the way that people looked at you or it was more about how you presented yourself, based on, like your, what you wanted to what you. It wasn't based on. He cut his back of the shoes out because he wanted to do that. It wasn't like he saw it on an ad or he saw it on anywhere, but he, he actually created a style like that could be a runway style right now. Right now, they're platform shoes with the bags cut out that people are wearing, and so that piece kind of just made me think about him and my home life and the way that things were lit in the house. It had a certain color, and I talk to artists all the time, like even my, when I'm teaching class. I always say to artists a lot of times, when you pick colors, what you paint with it's about the colors that you were brought up around, that you really that's what you're actually making work about, and for some artists like some artists don't think that they're doing that you know, sometimes, when I talk to my friends who are artists, who sometimes the students in my group who are white students and I say to them you're not you. You think that you're just making formal things. You're not just like my. We're as black artists.
Speaker 1:You're forced to think about content as much as you think about work, to think about content as much as you think about work, and unfortunately, a lot of young white artists are not in schools and being taught to look at content as a mode of inspiration. And the content could be the way your grandmother knitted a blanket for you and that blanket covered your body forever, and now you're painting the same colors of that blanket. You don't even know you're doing it. You think you're doing it because you read a Rauschenberg book, and it's not. You pick the colors because you go to your grandparents' house and they have wood paneling and they have all these different things in their house that you sit around talking to your grandma and your granddad, and now you are an adult and you're painting things and you're drawing from sources that are not necessarily about academic interests, and it's okay. It's okay to have content that's not in a book. It's okay to think about the colors in your house, the color of certain things.
Speaker 1:I think that people are being taught differently about how to create imagery. I think certain people are being forced to think about content in their family, in their home life and all those things for source of material, and some people are thought like those things aren't important. Think about art history, think about this artist who painted this way. I think that we can use both. I think forming content is equally important and it makes a much more interesting conversation. Now that we're in a place where everyone thinks they're an artist, a lot of people think that they're artists now. So the only thing that's going to separate you and your ideas is the content in which your ideas come from. That's what makes the work unique, not the fact that you can paint really well or you can make really interesting sculptures.
Speaker 1:But where did it come from?
Speaker 1:And it did not always come from a book.
Speaker 1:Most of the time it did not.
Speaker 1:A lot of times it comes from the conversations you've had with your parents, your uncles, your aunts, different people in your family that you may have totally disregarded as significant forms of inspiration.
Speaker 1:So I'd like to think that we all have content. I think some people are just taught not to think that their work is content focused, but I think that's not true. One group can't have content and another person doesn't have content. I think one group is being told that content is not important part of entering the work and one group is being allowed to have content because that's that's the way that other people understand their work. Sometimes people are told that content because it brings people into understanding that work what normally would not understand where that word came from. And I think that's an important place to really think about art and the way we're making art now. It brings people into understanding that work what normally would not understand where that work came from. And I think that's an important place to really think about art and the way we're making art now, and I think that if we are able to understand that better, then we can make more interesting, unique objects.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for that, brennan. You're also in a creative field and I'm curious a little bit kind of thinking off of what Derek has just said like what's your relationship with color? Also, as a curious, as a transplant to Miami, like I was, did you experience color differently when you were there? If you could talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting question because I was just telling Derek how we both kind of in this all black. I'm in this all black phase right now and historically, like you know, a lot of my self-expression and art, if you will, has come through with my fashion and how I dress and I've always, you know, really enjoyed dressing. And I think you know, similarly, no-transcript, what's it mean to have attention to the finer details and maybe just wear one color, but you know, there's the finer details of it. You know, and maybe I don't have the pennies in my penny loafers, but that's the little, you know, drop, drop of color sometimes I like to put in there, or the socks, you know, and so, um, you know, I think about that now when I'm looking at art, right, what, what's in the details? Um, and you know why, why did Derek choose these colors? Right, and starting to kind of think about that myself and and how would I interpret that?
Speaker 3:Um, and then also, kind of now is, as I'm having my ideas as an entrepreneur or creating a piece of visual, visual work, what you know personal piece of myself, am I pouring into that work? Uh, whether that's? Uh, you know, we just did a video campaign with archeterics, um, and it was kind of my personal storytelling narrative as I retired out of football and kind of transitioning into this new space, and I wrote a poem, you know, and I wanted that poem to be somewhat abstract, so leave it up to the, the viewer, the listener, to interpret it as they would, but at the same time give a personal message right. And I felt like that piece then had just a little bit more soul to it because of that. And Riley Brown, who was the videographer on it, he made it look great and the edit was fire, but it dropped a piece of my own personal background that the viewer might not even know it, but I know it and I feel like it makes it that much more special because of it.
Speaker 2:Very cool, thank you. So, derek, in relation to Eye Candy, I saw in an interview where and we talked a little bit about you know this feeling of main character energy, but that as a kid you would watch TV shows and get frustrated that you know the character you loved. The black character was often relegated to being like the sidekick, and they were. You thought they were more interesting and wanted them to have their own show. What kind of shows were you watching as a kid?
Speaker 1:And same question to you, brennan my show I always think TC on Magnum PI. He was so cool I'm like why doesn't he have his own show? Yeah, you know he has a helicopter. He picks up his rainbow suspenders, the hat you know all those shows. Barney Miller, the guy who was the other cop who had, you know, was all with the trench coat on.
Speaker 1:You know, all these characters would always have these kind of like supporting character roles. But to me, isaac on the love boat, like you know, I happened to meet him one day, which is on on the one train in New York, and I was like, are you Isaac from a love boat? And he was like, yeah, yeah, he was like. You know, we rode the train together. But it's like certain people that I just identify with, based on, regardless of whatever role they were given they. I connected with them representation-wise because they were black characters, but they also had roles that they had a big personality within the storyline. So it was always frustrating that they weren't able to have only one person did the Jeffersons is the only spinoff really with George who was first on Archie Bunker, and then he got the own show.
Speaker 1:So I grew up watching a lot of television because I you know when I would come from school do my homework, my grandma was there and I would just watch TV with her while I was doing my homework. So we would always talk about TV TV with her while I was doing my homework so we would always talk about TV. And I remember when I was a kid you know, in the 70s is when you start seeing diversity on TV, like then the 70s was like the time. And so growing up I started to recognize when it started to change. But it also was very slow with certain things, especially with consumer objects, like like you know, like sometimes food or soap or different things like that. And so me and my grandma had an ongoing thing that we would laugh about. Because I would say to my grandma, why don't have any black people in ivory soap commercials? She would say I guess they don't think we use soap and then she would laugh, um, and we would laugh about stuff like that. Or be a Ritz cracker commercial. I'm like you know, why is it up? Like you want to risk her? She was like we don't eat crackers, remember, you know. She would say things that we would laugh, but it was a thing that became really aware of representation on in in the media, because it was very different than my community, where a lot of the people were more represented representative who what I look like and even though there was some diversity within my community, we were the main characters. So to be the main character in real life and to be the supporting character on media is something that I was just really aware of as a child and I didn't really respond to it in a way that I made work, that even when I was younger I would make work.
Speaker 1:I remember one of the pieces I made. I had a teacher, a young black woman, I remember, miss Wilson, and she said she was younger and she just took a very focus on me as a student and she realized that I was like working, finishing things really fast and doing all these extra things. So she started to give me like assignments that were citywide, contests related things and she would give me, like you know, energy conservation or whatever the citywide thing. And I remember I did a drawing that I remember I haven't seen this as I was small, but it was a drawing that was called my Heritage Myself, and it was a drawing I did. It was a kid. It was like a family playing with their kid in the living room setting and then above them was a photo with a painting. I drew another painting on the wall of a family in a traditional African environment playing with their kid, and I remember I got an award from the mayor.
Speaker 1:My work hung in the mayor's office but my teacher would say things to me like you know, why are you drawing the eyes like that? Look at your eyes, are your eyes like that? You know she would make me aware of my physical characteristics and she was like look in the mirror, look at your eyes, look the way you're. You know she would make me aware of my physical characteristics and she was like look in the mirror, look at your eyes, look the way. You know. You know.
Speaker 1:And even when my you know, as an adult, when I would, when I would take drawing classes in grad school and I would do a self portrait and my mom would see it, she was like that is not your nose. She was like that is not. You know, go look at your nose. That's not your nose. You know she would do that. She was like that is not your nose. She was really into like the detail of representing, representing myself in the way that she felt was like you know, so that I was like what you know? She was like look at, look at your nostrils, look at that, you know. So I'm just really interested in this idea of really thinking about art or being a maker of art in a way that can definitely change the way people look at themselves, but also the way society views the subject. So that was really important for me.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, Brennan. To circle back to the original question, what were you watching as a kid? Did you, yeah, feel that that representation was missing there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. I think maybe I didn't really even have the awareness of it, right, but I'm a 90s baby, so I grew up with a lot of anime. You know, early on it was Pokemon and then it was Dragon Ball Z and, uh, I was also like, uh, I was really big into the Harry Potter books. I was reading a lot of Harry Potter. Uh, I think it wasn't until I got into middle school when they started doing Fresh Prince of Bel-Air reruns on Nick at Night, when I really gravitated towards a character who then started to inform or influence my identity, right, and Will Smith in the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. You know, he had the humor, right, and he dressed like really colorfully at the track jackets and so, like my eighth grade, ninth grade, 10th grade, like I'm wearing the retro track jackets and the snapback hat that I was getting from the thrift store, and so it really started to influence the way that I was speaking and my personality and my own humor and I saw how powerful it was. You know now, looking back, how powerful that was and didn't even realize. You know, I'm seeing a young black man on the TV and now that it's given me, you know, maybe the encouragement to be the person that I want to be, right, because Will is doing that, you know, unashamedly, you know it's going to be him. So now I have the power to step into that right, and I think that's really where the representation is is so important right, and I think it's really important to now for me to think about, like, that role that we play as role models, as entrepreneurs, as you know, presidents of universities, as curators, etc. Is like we are now in control a little bit of the narrative that's going out right and the kids as they're coming up, who are they seeing, who are they being exposed to and influenced by?
Speaker 3:Because you know there's definitely an influence factor there, and maybe not as much, but that dragon ball z goku influenced me too. You know he was, he was training and doing his thing, because goku was like a, he was a fighter and he would fight the bad guys and save the world and he'd do a lot of training. So I finished watching the episode of Dragon Ball Z and I might be going out to the track. It's time to get faster. You know I'm trying to be a professional football player, you know. Be like Goku, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Thank you Actually, derek, one question that we've gotten so education is a huge focus of our museum. Obviously, being a university, we give a lot of tours, not just to our university colleagues but also to K-12, retirement communities, the general public. And a question we get a lot is do you know the identity of the model in Eye Candy?
Speaker 1:No, actually I don't. I don't even know if the original image was a photographic image or a offset silkscreen image that was drawn or photographed. Yes, because the image was so small and so pixelated and I think it has to do with the technique that was used to make it. The original image might have been a photograph of someone, but the reproduction of the image was a screen. Yeah, but I would like to know who the person is, because he's cool. Yeah, he does. Because it was less about the individualism of the person and more about what they represented, because they were almost like an icon of sorts.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So we are almost at the end. I'm jumping through a bunch of questions, but I wanted to take a minute actually, and we're going to come back around to a question, I promise. But to first recognize my staff who helped pull this together, in particular Ana Keenberger and Estella Garzon in the back there, if you'll both stand oh sorry, estella is next. Yeah, ana's right there. Estella is next door preparing for the reception. But everyone on my staff Kathleen Murney, candace Bancari have been amazing in pulling this together, as well as our student staff, who many of you may have met coming in and you will meet if you go to the reception. But one thing I want to recognize is both of your staff as well. It's been amazing. Elisa is the best studio manager.
Speaker 2:I have ever worked with.
Speaker 4:She's great, she's amazing, she is great.
Speaker 2:Brendan, your staff has been delightful to work with as well, so professional. They also came in and helped with everything, so we're so grateful. Also, jordan's staff one of my favorite people, catherine Malone, is right here but it is so wonderful. But we've just been very fortunate to have amazing people to really that we surround ourselves with and I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about how you not to make this a job interview, but like you know, how do you? You know, choose the people you work with? What's that process like? Because I'm just so impressed with the people I've worked with on this particular project.
Speaker 3:I think it all, for me, it all starts from, you know, finding people that have the passion for the work that's being done, and oftentimes it's a really organic process, the way that we end up working with the people that we work with, whether it's an introduction to a friend For my creative team, itai and Riley are both here Met Riley from a friend of a friend and saw some of the work that he was doing and had some conversation and realized that there's a really strong passion for what he does and it's you know he takes pride in his work and so, you know, I take pride in my work as well. So it's been, you know, a perfect team. And then he introduced me to Etai and found the same, the same thing. So I think that's, for me, the biggest thing that I look for, uh is, is there a really a genuine passion? And then you know, are they willing to do the work right when it's time to?
Speaker 3:You know you said it's easy to have an idea right, but when it's time to do the work, are they there in your corner, you know? And so you know meryl and shawnee and my mom, my dad and you know the team at Big Yard, it's in that same thing. You know we have big ideas, but that's. That's only 20% of the battle. The other 80% is, you know, rolling your sleeves up and getting to it. So I see a lot of you know.
Speaker 1:I find a lot of those character characteristics in people is, you know it's it's the passion and the willingness to do the hard work. Well, you know, for an artist, it's really a difficult process to find someone to work in your studio, because they have to really work around you than working, you know, side by side or like it's not a collaboration. But you know, it's someone who is just facilitating what is necessary to get things done for you as the artist and you would like to have someone around you who can think creatively about certain things that may need a nonlinear approach, non-linear approach, um, but I usually uh, refer to my, my peers, like Mickalene, if we're looking for someone in the studio, we usually reach out to each other and send, or, you know, requests to each other. If you know anybody, you know, blah, blah, blah. It helps to kind of vet people, um, based on um, their qualifications and that focus. I will say you know, it's very, it's really interesting now having being an artist and having a studio, because a lot of times the people well, it's like, it's like a bunch of different things that are happening. You have a studio manager which is really more of the administrative part of your studio, like booking stuff and making sure that everything is in managing the people in your studio, helping you with, you know, if you're making work or archiving things or you know.
Speaker 1:But, um, generationally, a lot of people who work for artists don't necessarily want to work for artists. They want to be a curator or they want to be an artist or they want to be whatever. So that's a lot, because I just want someone to focus on me and that's difficult, which is part of the culture. It's not like I want to change the culture, but that's the culture that you know, artists or people aspiring to be curators or whatever, working for an artist and what happens a lot of times when you work for an artist who's successful or people who know, then you will get other opportunities to do other things that you want to do, but it takes you out of the studio, you know, and being in a space where you're more visible, working with artists, you may have opportunity, even from artist friends and colleagues who are looking for people to do things that they believe you could do, may be part of the distraction of being in my studio. But again, like I'm not trying to be one of those older artists who is like, ah, you got to do this one thing. But that is one of the things that you know.
Speaker 1:If you're in the music industry and you have a manager, that's what they do. If you're an actor, you have a manager, that's what they do. They're not a manager who is a singer. They're not a manager. If you're an actor, there's not a manager who wants to act too. You know, their goal is to manage an artist and that's all they think about how to help you do this thing, because they think that that was going to help to develop their uh career as well as a manager to work with other artists managing them. But in our world it's very different, because it's a very small pool opportunity for creatives, and so sometimes they end up in your studio, as you know. But the studio manager I have is great, yeah.
Speaker 2:She is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you both so much for joining us today. I want to invite our audience back to the museum to see Derek's installation, which is part of, again, the exhibition Color Outside the Lines from the collections of Jordan D Schnitzer, and I would love to thank both of you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you.