B Scar TV Podcast
Hi-Quality conversations with your favorite athletes, entertainers, thought leaders, and cultural tastemakers - hosted by NFL Linebacker Brennan Scarlett.
B Scar TV Podcast
NFL Hip-Drop Tackle Ban Better or for Worse? ft. Brian Peters & Kareem Jackson | The Group Chat
Is the NFL’s evolving rulebook making football better or worse, especially for defensive players? In this video, NFL Veterans Brennan Scarlett, DJ Reader, Brian Peters, and Kareem Jackson dive into the impact of recent rule changes and their implications on the game, focusing on the defense. From targeting rules last season to the controversial hip-drop tackle rule this season, we’ll explore the cause and effect of these changes.
How do we proceed from here? What do defensive players need from the NFL to continue playing effectively and safely? Join the conversation and share your thoughts on these critical changes.
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’Til next time... Peace ✌️
Deej, we got a hell of a conversation today.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We're talking about this hip drop tackle rule that the NFL is imposing on defensive players and the question is is the National Football League changing the game for better or for worse? There's not enough people out there asking it, so we're going to ask that question on the group chat today. And it's not just going to be the two of us. We're going to have a couple of special guests. Our first guest, reigning from Pickerington, ohio. He was a special team's ace for years in the NFL and the CFL and the Spring League and the UFL, before the UFL even existed. He played in all these different leagues, Transitioned out of the NFL and he is pursuing a career and holding his breath as long as he possibly can. We are going to welcome Mr Brian Peters, who was just at the top of the performance game. I'm going to welcome him to the group chat. There he is, jesus.
Speaker 3:What's up, boys?
Speaker 1:What's up man. What's up man?
Speaker 3:Dude, what's a good word?
Speaker 1:The question that we're all asking in the group chat is the NFL changing the game for better or for worse with all of these different rules? And we thought, bp, that you'd be a great voice to have on and share your thoughts, and also thought maybe our next guest, who is one of the most elite tacklers in the nfl for a lot of years, first round draft pick what other facts do we got? How this guy's paid?
Speaker 2:paid great day great teammate hilarious human.
Speaker 3:Hilarious human uh plays the game the right way uh violently.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I did, he's hardest working guys like this dude don't take off days. Every time I see him straight out of the season he's back working in the gym. Hell yeah, yo, he's a grinder. Hey, man, I'm a big dog, my dog jack man, he's a big dog man and he, uh, flex friday.
Speaker 1:He said that he was, uh, he was at his, his daughter's, gymnastics. I think it was either practice or a meet. So, like I mean the guy's the father of the year as well, you go into gymnastics practice oh, dude, he's got the whole guy.
Speaker 3:Something I always respected about jack was his speed of play. Like obviously he's that gets his reads and stuff. But like the dude doesn't have like a hesitant step like he's and this maybe maybe not the best setup for the topic conversation, but it's like zero. I'll say zero and a hundred instead of like sleep and kill. But like the dude just plays fast like he's. I mean he stood out in tape for a decade as like the quickest guy downhill. I mean you remember him in the nickel spot in Houston? Man, he's elite in that ability to react and the speed he plays, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure. And, mvp, you said he plays the game the right way, violently. And you know the league would beg to differ with you, as this last season they fined him like a billion dollars and he got suspended and then ended up going from Denver. They're really going after my guy.
Speaker 3:I get. Okay, we I get. Are we getting into this or are we waiting for Jack?
Speaker 1:I mean we could tee him up. I think he's he's getting ready to join here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just an interesting system. As far as the fine and the penalty, how many other penalties do they find? And they do their research study on a hip drop tackle of 25X, which I'm sure we can get into later. But, dej, would you think injuries go up when somebody holds you from behind and tries to twist you around in any manner? But they don't find them yeah, but they don't.
Speaker 3:They don't find those guys for like bad holds, like I would, I would assume injuries go up and like but how are they tracking those injuries? And like that's the frustrating part like cool, throw the flag, play, like have the game, look in the like the gift wrapping you want on tv, but like don't go after the man. Like like until you take pads off, don't go after the physicality of the man, cause you can't like. Like cause like I see this in. Like uh, weirdly I'm in like the military space a little bit now but like they don't like.
Speaker 3:Like there's rules of engagement where you usually gotta be like you can shoot like after somebody shoots at you, but like in football it's not that same. Like rules of engagement where it's like I can't show up and tackle you at a four If you're going to truck me at a 10, like you show up 10, 10 out of 10, and like you can't play the game at 95%. You can't play the game at 80% because either you're going to get cut not be on the field or like you're going to get hurt yourself absorbing force.
Speaker 1:And like you're going to get hurt yourself absorbing force, and so none of that stuff ever made sense to me, where it's like you can't dial back the violence of impact because you're at the end of the day, you're going to compromise somebody and the fact that they favor the offense is where I get get irked with like the head dropping and just the lack of realistic approach to the, to the biomechanics of a tackle too and I feel like if you even consider the way that the the speed at which the game is moving, if you even consider how you're gonna get a guy down, like that split second is like where you you lose it, where you're not gonna get that guy down, or you know you're gonna get hurt in that moment because you know you got, you got blocked, or you know you weren't expecting something, or that dude lowers his you know, lowers the pads on you. So it's that split second that like the more of these, these rules they they bring on, the more that the defensive players, I think, are put at risk.
Speaker 2:And it's also like it's at this point, at this age, just like your preferable way of tackling, like how you want to tackle. Because, let's be honest, like you don't work on it as much as you did in Little League, Like nobody's you're working on tackling bags. You're not working on tackling like you're not doing Oklahoma drill. You're not working on tackling your teammates like you do in Little League, this and the third. So you're kind of setting your ways Everybody here knows the basic way of tackling but like you're asking someone like again, like you said in that split second to now be like oh, this and the third, but when I'm comfortable going this way, and whether that there's some guys who are boomers, who are going to come in there, they're not going to misstep, they're going to come downhill and bang.
Speaker 2:That's gonna be the play. And then there's some guys who're gonna wrap and roll every single time, just same job's gonna get done. But you can't control how somebody does. Like you said, you can't take away from the man because of certain things. Like you can't do that. Like you know what I'm saying, like it doesn't make sense yeah, I get like so I did.
Speaker 3:I, I said it this way to a porter in canada, of all places, um, because I got fined up there for a helmet, the helmet, the whole joint. But uh, when you like, let's like go 10 000 feet and look at it objectively. Like we're different sizes, like different heights, different speeds and point of contacts and all these things on, these are all variables inside the, just the reaction ability and like I can break down the reaction ability of, like the processing of the brain too, which also makes it impossible. But so I had this reporter punch me in the shoulder because, like he goes, why, like, why'd you lower your head? And like hit him helmet to helmet, like the dude um was taller than me and came down regardless, like he's a big tight end. But whereas the fact I I had the reporter punch me in the shoulder and he punched me in the shoulder, I let him punch me, I go, punch me again. I go a little bit harder this time. And on the third one I ducked my head and had him punch me and he punched me in the head, just tapped me in the head. I go, oh my God, why would you do that? $2,000, fine. And now imagine two grown ass, super fast, freak athletes running at each other, and one trying to avoid the other, one trying to hit the other different heights, at different speeds, at different unknown angles that you can't prep for and tell me that. And then now you get into the biomechanics of like a tackle anyway. So in their perfect tackle, you step forward, drop your shoulders, keep your neck back, whatever your head, you still lead with your head, like I can't tackle without my head being one of the first things through this plane. And so, objectively like it like the, the thing you're more talking about is the entry angle of the helmet and the probability of the our helmets colliding. And then now you add in slow motion replay and every time, like every time a helmet touches a helmet, it's the end of the world. You know like there's too many variables to try and completely take that out of the game. Like the hip drop tackle.
Speaker 3:I want to see their study because I think saying 20, 25, x is a trash stat if it's not like backed up, and I Googled it right before I hopped on, I couldn't find it. And that because, like, how did they grasp that statistic? Because, like, if you're going I don't want to make this a polarizing podcast, but if you're going by, like a lot of people get their stats from this, this concept of uh perceived risk ratio instead of like actual risk ratio, it's like it gets, it gets into like vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs and stuff, but like okay, say they look at, I mean, how many tackles are in a game? 100, right, like something like that. And then so two teams, 100 tackles, so 200 tackles per game, whatever.
Speaker 3:And so say you have like I'm trying to, we'll make it simple math but like, um, their stat is, we'll say one out of 100 tackles is a hip drop tackle, and like five, like whatever two and two injuries happen. And so they look at another hundred tackles and whatever six injuries happen, like that's a 20 increase. So, though, like, like uh I know more like uh pharmaceutical statistics that those aren't good. But instead of like comparing it to like oh, there's actually two occurrences in a hundred, they go, oh, that's one, like one to two or five to six, and that's how they get their differentiation. So like one to two is a 50% or a hundred percent increase, you know, and that's how they get. They get these multiplying factors of oh, this is 25 times more likely, when really there's just five more instances of it that happened. That led to injuries last year.
Speaker 4:We've got kareem jackson k jack what's up. Jack boy what's?
Speaker 2:happening man? How y'all doing man?
Speaker 4:the guys hey the guy, the guys back together, man yes indeed, yes indeed, we had.
Speaker 1:Uh, bp was just going into how the the stats that were dropped, uh, in the interview with Troy Vincent and Cameron Jordan, how the stats were a little skewed. That 25 times injury rate is a little skewed.
Speaker 4:Oh man, like, at this point, like, what are we even talking about? Like it's football, you know what I mean. Like it's football, man, I don't understand. Like the stats and all of that stuff. Man, you can go pull up stats about every injury there is, like high roll ankles, like dislocated fingers, like all kind of stuff. Man, like, what are we talking about? What are we going to ban next? Like, come on, man, it makes no sense. Man, we're still playing football.
Speaker 4:Like it's football, injuries are gonna happen, like, and the thing about it is like, and like he said, like it typically happened when it's a bigger guy tackling a smaller guy. That's because the bigger guy may be a little bit out of place or the smaller guy is faster. So you're trying to tell me you're going to neglect a great play made by DJ on a wide zone, going to his left or chasing down a smaller guy, that's a great play. Or if he's turning and running, like you know, out of the pile on. You know plays like that, those are great, those are seen in great plays. Like we'll pat dj on the back or d lineman, or whatever the case may be. Like, like you're going to be out of position at certain times throughout the course of the game, but at that point it's still about getting a guy on the ground. So now you're going to tell me you're going to penalize guys for possibly being out of position, but still making a tackle and making a play. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:And my thing is, I guess, for that, like it's crazy, like you're talking about it is how do you stop? Once you latch on to somebody and you're out of that position, what do I have to do to myself? Like, am I? Do I somehow got to create momentum again to wrap myself around, do I like? How do I start momentum? The only thing you can do at that moment is to drop bro and like, stop him from progressing forward. Like what do you want people to do?
Speaker 4:Two things can happen, DJ. You can, like you said, you can drop your weight and get them down, or you can let them drag you.
Speaker 3:Or you can miss the tackle, yeah.
Speaker 4:And football is going to be so sloppy tackling-wise because of that, and it's already bad because of all the rules and stuff and guys getting fined and getting ejected and all that stuff. And even in that, like he named certain guys, but I'm like those guys were knocking the hell out of people, like yeah, he named folks like sean taylor he named come on man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, those lecture those dudes were smashing people, they wouldn't last a quarter now. They wouldn't last a quarter now, in today's game, with the rules in place, now, like that's what I dealt with all last year like those dudes were those dudes were pulverizing people you're gonna name those people and say they weren't tackling like that. Yeah, because they were knocking the hell out of people. Man, come on, yeah, they didn't have to tackle like that back then.
Speaker 2:You don't think they was ever out of position. You don't think they ever had a chance to play from the backside.
Speaker 2:Man, come on man, and really catch somebody like you, think it's out of, like it's the only reason it's out of, like it's the only reason it's happening. Nobody prefers to tackle that way. I promise you, all of us want to make the boom or a wrap and roll, like we not trying to go, we not hip dropping people on purpose. Like it's not, like oh, that's the preferred method of tackle. Like it's shit. It's a linebacker trying to tackle this 6'5 260 pound tight end and he can't get him on the ground. Eventually he's like well, shit, you're not about to drag me into his zone.
Speaker 4:You're not about to drag me for this first down. I got to drop my weight At this point. I can't reposition myself and be in another position to get him down. So at this point I got to drop my weight. And it just so happened that sometimes it's going to come with injury, like if it ain't that it can come with you know a different type of tackle, some type of other injury, but like you're going to be out of position, that stuff is going to happen. It's football. You're not going to be in the perfect position every time.
Speaker 1:So now you're telling guys all right, well, if you ain't in a perfect position every time, I don't care you, you go get fine, or it's gonna cost your team 15 yards yeah, yeah, bp, when you were talking earlier about the stats and how like they come to those conclusions around, you know that, being 25 times any other types of tackles, it's 25 times times the injury rate. You know it's interesting that they point out the injury rate because you know it's been like what about field versus turf? You know what about like things that maybe offensive players do Like. I'm sure there's some type of juke move that might tear defensive players' ACLs more often than other types of juke moves, but they don't restrict those moves.
Speaker 4:But the thing with that particular stat is going to happen more because you're going to have guys being in a position where they're out of position throughout the course of a game, rather than anything else. That's going to happen If you're playing 70 to 75 plays, you're not going to be in the perfect position every time you make a tackle. If a linebacker averaged 10 to 15 tackles a game, you ain't going to tell me all 15 times he was in the perfect position. Some of them he going to be chasing, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would argue like 80% of tackles aren't form tackles, like if that you know? No, and then I was telling them earlier, jack, where now you start talking about the different heights and speeds and impact angles and all those things and like what makes helmet to helmet look like helmet to helmet is really just like probability that we're fucking up and you can't take that out of the game. You can't have the perfect type people so that my helmet can go to this side when his head's coming down. Like it doesn't make sense to try it. And so I was telling them like because, like, what happened with you was trash in my opinion.
Speaker 3:Because, like, take the fines out of it. Like you want to throw the flags on your field, cool, don't attack the man that's trying to like keep and defend his job or let alone let it progress into suspensions, like that. That's just kind of my opinion. Because, like you can keep affecting the game and your coaches are going to bench you if you're getting like five fucking 15 yard penalties a game. You know, I I don't like the fine system like they. I mean it's their game, their rules.
Speaker 2:But it's such a random fucking number, like they just throw a number on it and he's like high ball numbers. Like it's like a random fucking number, like they just throw a number on it and he's like high ball numbers. Like it's like come on y'all.
Speaker 2:like you're not finding people based off what you think the fines should actually be Like. You find them cause you want to hurt people. Like you, you really want to hurt people, which is why you're finding them. Like you know what I'm saying. Like people, which is why you're finding them. You know what I'm saying. You're not like yo. I feel like they should be fined. Let's just take a reason about a cash out of their pocket. You want to hurt them. You are trying to send a message with every one of these fines they're giving out or they make you go big to try to get that back.
Speaker 4:Right. And another thing too is I was told they told me they don't. They don't find offer intent. So my thing was like, if I'm going in to go low and I had one where I got fined and it was raining, that started to rain and, you know, the receiver slipped and so I'm going in to go low, he slipped and now we're on the same level and I got fined for that and a couple of mines. They changed levels to where I'm going low and now guy, either slip or a couple guys hit him and now we're on the same level. Um, and so they told me they don't find off an intent. But I'm like, well, maybe it should be off of intent, because it's not like I'm intentionally doing any of this stuff, like it's football, like I can't predict where this guy's gonna, you know, end up by the time. I'm already committed so to to get to get 50, 60 grand taken from me week in and week out, because I'm going to make a tackle, which is my job as the last line of defense to tackle. It just so happened, me and this guy ended up on the same level, whether he stumbled, whether he slipped because of the weather or whatever the case may be, or maybe it's a bad ball. Whatever the case may be, it literally it makes no sense.
Speaker 4:And then another thing too with the drop-hip tackle I'll say this that's sometimes, I know, like that stuff happens also. That particular tackle happens also because they're teaching, because of all the concussion stuff. They're trying to keep the head out of the game. So on side, on you, sideline tackling, they're trying to keep the head out of the game. So on side, on you, sideline tackling, they're trying to teach guys now to put their head on the back side of the runner instead of getting your head across like you would normally do. That's how I was taught your head across. But if I, if I, put my head on the back side of this runner, I'm only tackling with my arm now. So now I don't got no choice but to fall backwards on his legs.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:That's like yeah, we're getting a lot of that because it's been a lot of improper technique being taught now because they're trying to take the head out of the game, which is crazy too. Like I was taught as a kid to get my head across on a sideline tackle. Now they're like all is crazy too. Like I was taught as a kid to get my head across when I'm on the sideline tackle. Now it is like all right, put your head on the back side of the guy, but if you back, I put my head on the back side. I'm just tackling with my arm now and now all I'm doing is holding on. I gotta fall backwards on his legs. It's gonna happen every time every time yeah, so it makes no sense.
Speaker 1:The NFL. They named the first offense for impermissible use of the helmet and launching is a twenty two thousand dollar fine, and then the second. The second offense is a forty four thousand dollar fine. They haven't they haven't yet said I don't know if they said if the hip drop tackle is going to be a fine or that's just going to be a flag. But, jack, I agree, it was funny. I was talking to my trainer, who is he coaches his son, his son's a seventh grader, and we were talking about doing tackle drills and I like demonstrated one that he should show to his team. And I put my head across and he was like oh no, you're supposed to put your head behind. And I looked at him so crazy Like no, you're not what I played for a long time. You're not supposed to do it like that, you're not supposed to do that dog.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man, these kids going to hurt they self. Man, you're talking about tearing shoulders, biceps, all that, like you're supposed to get your head across.
Speaker 4:are you talking about putting your head on the back side of the runner now, like because trying to take the head out of the game, like trying to take, I'm like man, come on like if I do that, if I, if, if I, if he don't break my arm, tackle, I ain't got no choice but to fall backwards on his legs because he's gonna drag me the thing is with the light hold, take your head out of it.
Speaker 2:I understand it. I understand we're trying to make football quote-unquote safe but, like some people, just structurally built to play this game.
Speaker 2:And some people are built in a way that, like, when they are hitting their necks, their whole setup it's good, it's what it is. They shouldn't be, obviously they shouldn't be bashing the head of people, but, like you, worried about something that's never going to happen to half the people out there. Like some guys, like, yeah, structurally, some people just weren't meant to be playing this game and it may mess them up, but like, come on man, Like come on, Now I got to, like you said, now I got to result to arm tackles and this and the third. Like now I can't hit drops. Now, how am I going to figure it out, Coach? You, let me know Listen.
Speaker 2:You let me know what I'm supposed to do, so I can figure it out Please.
Speaker 4:It's like you said, I get it too. All the safety. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we want everybody to be safe, but again, we're playing football, we are. It is football, it's a gladiator sport. It's impossible to make football safe like you can make. You can say all right, we want it to be as safe as possible. Yeah, yeah, okay, but it is football, man, it is still football. Talking about the biggest, the strongest, the fastest guys on planet Earth running into each other, like we got to still be, like that's just what it is. Like you know what I'm saying? Like it's like yeah, come on, man, that's just, it's football.
Speaker 2:And all the rules are negative against defensive players, Like all the rules they got, even that pool rule that they got for the offensive lineman. Now they get to go out there and smash corners. They get to go out there and smash the corners because they can't cut them With no fear. The offensive lineman was just out there running around so happy because they get ready to try to go kill a corner because he can't cut them no more, can't cut them in the corner.
Speaker 4:And if the corner ola them, the coach gonna get on the corner like don't jump out of the way, or something like that. Like you, you trying to tell me you want me to take on this pulling guard or tackle, as he pulled out of open space with no fear in the world, he on the train track. You want me to get on that train track and just let him hit me. I can't cut him, he nothing. Like. I don't understand that either. Like and then it's like if you can't cut them in space, why can that tight end plunge back behind the line and cut that outside line back? Crazy.
Speaker 1:Crazy. That's one of the craziest plays in football to me.
Speaker 4:That they haven't gotten rid of that play. You know how many knees have been tore up because of that?
Speaker 1:To go in motion. They'll bring you that wild. Come yak across and be in full speed at the snap of the ball and come and cut down some linebacker.
Speaker 2:Come now, throw his back at you, not even like try to face you or just launch it to you.
Speaker 1:And knowing exactly that.
Speaker 4:You got to stay square.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 4:And not only that. With that tall sweep and that receiver or tight end, whoever on that point, you still let him crack that D-end or that outside linebacker, but in space you can't cut the lineman. Come on, man, that tight end plunging back behind that line like that and blowing out so many knees year to year and they still ain't ain't ain't threw that out of football yet.
Speaker 3:but you're trying to tell me these dudes can pull out and hit a little corner come on, man, I don't think you should be able to take, like I was telling them earlier, a little bit too, but like any disparity of effort, like like the meeting, like 10 with 10. Like you can't take away one of your abilities to beat the old lineman, so that gives you like 8 out, like 10 with 10. Like you can't take away one of your abilities to beat the O-lineman, so that gives you like 8 out of 10 against his four. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So because they're like taking away your ability to do your job. Like I just think it's such an unfair thing where, like, you can't play the game at 80% or 90% reaction when, jack, you play one of the fastest reactions in the league. It's your livelihood.
Speaker 4:It's crazy to me and the thing about it you know how many corners have cut linemen and cut the running back at the same time and that was seen as a great play, Unbelievable. That's a great play. Now he got to hit that lineman and let linemen move him out plow him out of the way.
Speaker 2:And half the time, jack, y'all didn't even cut him, y'all just slid up the field so he wouldn't smash you. You can't even pretend like you're going to go down and do a slide now or they're going to say oh, you was trying to cut him. It's like damn ref. I can't even get out of his way in a dodging manner where it's close to looking like I cut him at all. It's wild.
Speaker 4:I got fined for that. This year too. We were playing Miami. They ran tall sweep.
Speaker 4:And this was like out in the field I was a safety, I was a half safety at that. So the lineman and the running back had got up on me about 15 yards deep, like 15 yards in the secondary, and the running back was right behind him and so he, the running back, ducked in like he was gonna cut inside. So I went in to like kind of make the tackle and so, but I went low to make the tackle, I missed the lineman and they still find me when did they take the corners cutting out of the game?
Speaker 4:it was was like two years ago. Yeah, maybe about two years ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's absurd, that that would take a defensive player's ability to cut out first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, yeah, like yeah.
Speaker 2:And like they throw a flag on any big hit. If there's any noise made on the field, it's a flag. Big hits are seen as like, like, especially if players react in a certain way. If there's a reaction, it's a throw the flag. Now check later to see if it wasn't a flag or if it wasn't this. If it wasn't, that it's kind of crazy. It's just like you said. It's taking like you were saying earlier, bp, it's taking your way of meeting my 10 with your 10 and just because my 10 is better than your 10, I'm now on the penalty, which is like, it doesn't make any sense like, especially when it comes to specifically tackling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you, you guys hear tom brady's defense, like saying that, like I was just my bad, I was just about to feed him feed him, tell him I was about to say, and the thing about about it is it's making the game.
Speaker 4:It's basically a cop-out for coaches and quarterbacks and stuff, because if you're not reading the coverages right or you're not necessarily looking at what you thought you'd look at and you throw a guy into a big hit, you're still going to benefit from it, though You're still going to get a 15-yarder, like even the Minnesota game. When I came back, their coach ran. It was third and one first third down of the game. They ran a toss sweep with their quarterback so they motioned their tight end. He took the snap and tossed it to the quarterback Big hit First conference. After the snap and tossed it to the quarterback Big hit First conference after the game. He complaining about the hit. How about not put your quarterback in that situation? Why not run tall and sweet with your running back? Don't get in there after the game complaining about a dumbass play that you called and say.
Speaker 3:I thought it should have been a flat no.
Speaker 4:How about not put your quarterback in that situation? But yeah, I mean, but the stuff Brady said, man, he was spot on with it. Like there's no accountability when it comes to that side of the ball, whether it's the coaches or the players, when they're putting guys in positions to get hit, or the play calling or you know making sure guys know what they're looking at or how to protect themselves. Like it's no accountability and they just rely on the rules.
Speaker 1:Now well, I got. I got two questions. Number one I think I know the answer to this from everyone but number one are these rule changes? They're, they're using, uh, the injury rates and player safety, health and safety. Are they using that as a scapegoat? You know, is that true? Are they really concerned with player safety or are they using that as a scapegoat? You know, is that true? Are they really concerned with player safety or are they using it as a scapegoat because they want more points on the board?
Speaker 4:I'll say they're concerned with it. But I just think, when you talk about safety, my thing is if you're going to take something from me, you at least give me some tools, or at least teach me how to go about, you know, avoiding being in that situation Like you're telling me. I can't tackle a guy a certain way, to drop, hip tackle or whatever, so how are you going to teach me to stay out of that situation?
Speaker 3:I think it's an imperfect game where that's never going to happen. And trying to control it's like trying to control the weather, you know it's just like it's never going to. You're going to have different's. Like trying to like control the weather, you know just like it's never gonna. You're gonna have different size, different speeds. Guys are only getting freaking faster. Watch the combine. You're looking at four, twos all day. I'm never gonna tackle form, tackle tyree, kill in my life, in my prime or any anytime. But like you know what I'm saying, you're always going to be out of position. Um, I don't think the game's going to change in that regard and they're not. They're not going to teach you because they don't have an answer. You know, like, in my opinion, like what? What's your answer? Miss the tackle, let him score?
Speaker 1:no, like it just like, do you think? Do you think that they're really concerned about player safety, or isn't just more so to have more of a explosive offensive product on the field?
Speaker 3:I think they're cherry picking whose safety they're protecting, like you, and let alone the pockets they're attacking. Like like, look again, just look at the penalties for where they find people and show me the penalties on offensive holding, on defensive linemen and defensive ends, on the chop block, for, like the split zone that we're talking about, like the chop, any chop block, because it's offense that's doing that shit like 90 of the time. So it's like, show me all those stats and then show me your 2025x on the hip drop tackle and let's, let's play chess, let's, let's talk like real numbers that affect injury. But like they're not finding nfl teams that haven't switched to grass, like they're not with things where we know facts are facts and people split. They split the ACLs and ankles and it's really not a massive difference. But if we're going to go by stats, let's do it fairly.
Speaker 3:But I don't like attacking the person.
Speaker 3:You can change the outcome of the game if that's what you want, but don't attack the man, because the fines Jack got, there's undrafted free agents getting those in preseason football, right, and that's absurd to me and it's like but, but then you get into suspension and then now you start to like I like this is like Jack aside cause it's happening to multiple players, but like now you're affecting his value, potentially in free agency, because the dude has this fine view in the ref size or coach's eyes or like anything like that.
Speaker 3:Like that's absurd to me that you're a guy that's playing the game like tackle football and he's tackling and like again, again, look at the percentages of form tackles in the NFL. I say it's below, I say it's below 20, and then tell me a way to do it. They don't like I think they're choosing to um influence the game and not being responsible for all the humans. Like jack said, the coaches, the quarterback's decision, anything like that. I think that I'm I mean, I'm wearing a make football violent again hat, but like it's like they they've taken physicality out of anything in the middle of the defense and they're taking away special teams, which I obviously have a massive passion for, and you're changing the complete outcome of games and it's trash.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think the special teams thing is going to be tough too, because you got guys that make a living off that man You're talking about Pro Bowls and stuff like that to to just you know, kind of do away with it. Man. You got guys like I said, they they pride themselves on that that's where they they make their their money at this.
Speaker 4:That's. You know guys look forward to that. Like going down and beating a guy and going and making tackles, like talking about matthewater who made a living in his league on special teams. You're talking about cutting out a portion of the game where, if you put together a nice return, you get a good for your offense. You start in a good spot on the field. But now you're talking about, you know, kind of cutting out a part of the game where guys made a lot, were made a lot of their money in and pro bowls and all that other stuff, and that I was. I didn't kind of I didn't agree with that either.
Speaker 3:But again, it's all for safety yeah, I uh because, like, because what are? Because they're switching to that five yard deal, right, like what? Watch the holding calls on the offense for that and let's track the injuries on that. And again, like it's going to be absurd because the same thing that happens. Guys get twisted in turn and it might be an ankle or knee or whatever.
Speaker 1:Which rule are you talking about?
Speaker 3:I'm just saying the new set, the new setup for the kickoff and kickoff.
Speaker 2:Kickoff return and rule yeah.
Speaker 3:It's basically going to look like. Did you watch? The USFL demoed it right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they started it, they demoed it last year and yeah, so now the league adopted it.
Speaker 3:Like you're starting five yards apart down the field, so the kicker's kicking by himself.
Speaker 1:And then it's.
Speaker 3:It's basically like the drills we run in practice, where yeah, training camp, but yeah, oh, that's trash no, and you're, so you're changing really just got to make one person miss.
Speaker 2:He's got to pick a, pick a gap and make one guy miss, and shit, it's the foot race but?
Speaker 3:But you just changed the history of special teams with that one real change. Now you changed every KOR coach's tactics for the rest of his life and you discounted 32 coaches, probably 132 coaches. That that was what they were getting paid to do. And now they have to adapt and if they can't find out, sink or swim, they get cut. But nobody gives a hell about the coaches you know it's just like but let alone the players that now have to change again. Years and years of habits and study to adapt to the nfl's rules for quote unquote safety.
Speaker 2:but again those smaller guys who's like advantage with speed.
Speaker 4:I was talking about that too. We got the guys right, the guys who ran down and beat guys with speed. Now you're going to be standing five yards away from a guy, right in his face.
Speaker 3:But that's where it was like the better players knew how to drop for those guys. And but like dude, even so, my, like dude, I, I, I had a great year, my first year, and then they took away the running start and I suck at acceleration. I tried to get it back but, like the, the rule changes.
Speaker 3:I felt in real time and it's just it was crazy to to see now, to see what it's becoming, whatever. That is eight years since then, but it's uh. I mean, you can change the game so much, but at what point the special teams disappear now like you start the ball on the same line. It's just like you take, you take away field position just to so they can play gambling stats and what about?
Speaker 4:yeah, what about like the, the schemes where you double in certain guys or you know that type of stuff. All that stuff gone now like yeah, yeah, if he was a real guy on kickoff doubling you and all the other stuff, all that stuff gone now.
Speaker 1:BP cut a lot of those double teams. Bp you got a lot of those.
Speaker 3:Once upon a time, but they took the four-man wedge out and then they took. I think they took away.
Speaker 4:It went from four to two. Yeah, four to two. Then it could be the two-man wedge, and then Now you can't even set up together.
Speaker 2:You got like double team on the run now, yeah, that's what I thought um, yeah, you can't even like set up that close. It's like another one yes, but now, I mean now there's no need for none of that like it's just, like they just and just my one-on-one you, yo, you, you, you versus him, five yards apart yeah, and I, I, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Like again, like if you just look at the frequency, like I'd like to know how many hip drop tack tackles happen. Like are we arguing over something that isn't like a massive occurrence, but like are they going to start blurring together the hip drop and the gator roll. Like there's so much gray area in tackling, like in real time, and now a ref's got to decide that in real time, so they're gonna have a bunch of mistakes this year on that, and it's just gonna. And it's. I mean that you've already seen the disparity like dj, like bless the d line and the defensive ends. Like like the, the quarter, the, like whatever that bubble around the quarterback you can't land on the quarterback, you can't, and they get to decide.
Speaker 2:when you land it on them, when you hit them too low, when you this, when you that, you're like damn.
Speaker 3:So did they say that? Did they give us some like 20 to 25X bullshit stat there too? Or they just like, no, they're worth a lot of money.
Speaker 2:It was taken away from the money Guys landed on them. But then you can't hit them in the thigh. You can't hit them below the knee, and now it's a discrepancy between like the thigh board and the knee. Like you can't I guess you can't wrap behind the knee, but you can hit them in the thigh boards. There's just so many different ways you got to go about tackling these, these people nowadays, man, they, they. It's very tricky out here on on how to go about tackling these folks.
Speaker 3:But again, because the rule change, you have to change potentially your effort at the end of a play when you have a 330 pound monster of a man trying to redirect your human body where he's going to land on you. But who gives a fuck about the 330 pound guy?
Speaker 3:laying on you, yeah, yeah it's just like, like there's got to be like a quality of outcome on some's, just like like there's got to be like a quality of outcome on some of this stuff and there's got to be grace for the imperfection of the game.
Speaker 1:Um, that or just, or, take everybody's helmets off and we'll figure it and we'll turn it to rugby, you know yeah, yeah, I think because there's so much offensive favoritism, like if the league's intentions which it probably the league has intentions of player safety and making trying to make the game safer but because there's so much offensive favoritism there, you have to ask the question like, OK, they want more points on the board to make a more engaging product for fans. If that is true, the question for us I'm curious to hear is if we take ourselves out of the defensive cleats in playing football, can you blame the NFL for trying to skew the game to get more points on the board? Is it a more engaging product when there are more points on the board or do you think fans actually are really engaged with these defensive plays? Us as, like you know us as watching the game, like, do we want to see those defensive plays? I think that's something to think about.
Speaker 4:I think you still got some real fans out there that love seeing some great defensive football man and not just wanting to see guys run up and down the field and score points. You know, I mean I kind of you know I saw a lot of fans kind of in my favor with all the stuff that I that I was dealing with this year um kind of felt the same way, felt like it was bs, uh. So it's still some real. It's still some real football lovers out there that love to see that hard nose, you know style of play. They still I I mean still want to see that type of product and don't really care. We kind of see guys running around, you know, and not getting hit and just you know, like they're running through a wet paper bag.
Speaker 4:But I mean it's I feel like it all depends on who you ask man you know, and, like you said, take it, if I'm not in my, if I'm not in my cleats, I still will feel the same way. I still feel the same way. I mean, obviously, the offensive guys. They love it now. They love it because they can run around and not have to worry about getting the hell knocked out of them.
Speaker 3:And they embellish too. Look at the normal responses to any hard hit, any sound, now Stuff where guys will pop up and go. But now they know they can draw a flag like that's why I love hockey. They have like the embellishment where you like, if you, if you. It's like the opposite of soccer where they give you like cry on the ground, but like they they kind of for like the dramatic stuff. They flag you for that, like let's flag the guys for like or like if you act dramatic, like you're done for the game. I bet that cuts it out real fucking quick yeah, they're, they're begging.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they're begging for it. Anytime, any, any hard contact or any, anything like that, even if it's somewhat loud, they're begging for the flag. You can see the whole sideline, everybody's hands up. You got they got the coaches begging for they get in the in the press conference. They begging for it. I thought that should have been a flag. Nah, it's football, man, it's football. So, yeah, it's just for me. I've been telling people this all year. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out how to tackle, I guess.
Speaker 2:Man. For me I think if I take the cleats off it's still like, like you said, there's still people who go on air on that side. They're just aggressive people, aggressive by nature. They want to see aggressive things happen and they like action. There's just action in that type of football.
Speaker 2:But I think to the new fan, bro, it's been taken out of the game so much like you don't.
Speaker 2:You would only notice it if you played like you would only know it's a thing.
Speaker 2:Now if you played growing up you know what I'm saying or saw it or did something that at some level because with the way the game's going now, you don't even those hard hitters aren't celebrated or they're talked about as almost bad people or like so you don't see it as often and you don't recognize how good of a play those plays are. You don't have the appreciation for a lot of those plays unless, like you played it, been around it or you just naturally err on that side of aggression. As a person, I think if you see the game a certain way, you're never gonna see it like you. You're never gonna see it the other way. Be like they should be back in the game If you like, scores being 40 to 40, whatever, and you're happy with that and that's your brand of football, then you're going to love it. If it's not, and if you like a 10 to 7 grudge match, like me, then you're going to love it. The other way, I think that's just the way it goes.
Speaker 3:That's a great fucking point, dj. That's just the way it goes. That's a great fucking point, dj. Like I mean so, like with the opposite of what Jack did, but like who would you say is the most violent football player and like the most physical football player in the NFL right now Outside of, like Aaron Donald, who's like inside combat Roquan Smith.
Speaker 2:They're probably Roquan Like people. Some people love him and some people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I don't know what his like penalty ratio is, but like it has been programmed out when we used to celebrate like, like so many players, for like physicality and like that's where, like the, the guy from that clip I don't know if you're gonna show the clip scar that you sent us, but like every player he named was just renowned and like people wouldn't throw near sean taylor, like across the middle or ray lewis, and like you get the time if you, if you find tom brady's clip, I just think he just shows the response. He, tom brady, wouldn't dream of throwing his receiver into a helmet to helmet contact scenario because he likes his freaking receiver, like and. But now it's just the game's changed in that regard, but like I think they've, they've started to program the fandom out of celebrating the violence, yeah, and so I just think that's a cool perspective. I'm going to have to think on that.
Speaker 1:These kids, they won't know about the big hits.
Speaker 3:No, and the NFL has no problem celebrating their history, like talking about the Lawrence Taylors and all these monsters of men and but like these guys, like jack said, like some of these guys would not last a half of football, they'd be ejected twice, yeah, you know, just just by how they handled offensive linemen and like, obviously, the hands, the face and all these other crazy things that used to happen. But I just think, uh, it's funny, what that again, what I think the nfl cherry picks and who they choose to find and what penalties. But again, like it is, I don't know. It's frustrating to me, but I don't know they're, they're killing special teams. So I'm gonna forever hold out do they still got hit.
Speaker 1:Stick on madden they still doing that.
Speaker 2:Bro, he used to be able to rock folks on madden yeah, still a thing, but it's not as accurate as it used to. Be able to rock folks on Madden it's still a thing, but it's not as accurate as it used to be. They made it an offensive advantage on his stick. The truck stick works more than the hit stick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you used to be able to throw that right analog up and you was going to hit him high. You was going to hit him high Head and neck area. That's not true.
Speaker 2:The organic CTE. No longer, not much more the organic CTE. No longer do we. They allow the organic not the organic yeah, they're no longer organic CTE. They want that fake stuff now.
Speaker 3:GMO but which is a whole nother. Like I'm not going to open up a can of worms, but but, but hey, if they, if the NFL, cared about our health and safety, we'd have lifetime health insurance, we'd have the best brain, neuro stuff, we have access to some things. But like, like, like they care about what happens that's on game day but not after. Like they don't have bad systems. Like y'all y'all been playing for a while you guys, guys played much longer than I did. But like, just like, just being a good person in the locker room, I've been called by five people a year with neuro issues, body issues and they can't qualify for line of duty and X, y and Z. But it's just, if they cared about health, health and safety, like all this stuff would be like in the bag already.
Speaker 3:Like what? Like some other. Like there's no reason, reason, the NFL, who I think like highest earning league. Like in the state of the States right now, when you incorporate all the gambling and everything and all that stuff that we shouldn't have that and other professional leagues do so anyways. Like there there's there's 10,000 feet views on what is health and safety and what you can really control in the game. But that's something that's in, like the nfl's control that like if that's what they really wanted, but they're making their money and I mean they're the kings of the castle. So we got to play by the rules to some extent, but it's tough to to swallow some of the stuff that I've seen since I've been out where do we go from here, man?
Speaker 1:that's the question. That's the question where do we go from here?
Speaker 3:I don't know how you take back the ref's perspective on hitting the quarterback and like leading with your head and like you can yeah it's the.
Speaker 2:It's all up to his interpretation as the referee and those people in new york. So it's. I don't think you go anywhere from here, bro. I think we just got to live with what those are, the rules are. We can bitch and complain, and it's just, unfortunately, they're going to dictate this game the way they want to dictate it. If we want to keep making money, we just got to find a way to be able to play it. They wanted to go in a certain direction. There's no reason besides their own thoughts and what they think it's like leading a country. I guess they're saying we want to lead the game this way, based off whatever, whatever they've found, or their minds all their minds up there have came together and figured out this is the way we're leading the game, and those guys got to adjust because there's no. I mean, who the fuck's going to stop them? Who's going to stop them from leading the fairway? They paid the commissioner.
Speaker 4:Nobody's going to shut them down. Yeah, definitely can't do nothing about it. I figured that out going through the stuff I went through this past year. Man, I took a trip to New York, sat down and met with all of them. I left that meeting with no answers.
Speaker 1:Nothing, Jack what'd they?
Speaker 2:find you a billion dollars.
Speaker 4:What'd they find you a billion. Close. I left the meeting with no answers and basically, hey, deal with what's going on right now, Deal with it and move on.
Speaker 2:Confusion.
Speaker 4:That's pretty much what I had to do, man.
Speaker 1:I heard they were about to dig into your 401K man.
Speaker 4:They were going to take it to the next level. Man, hey, they can't do that. But man, it was just and I think that's my biggest thing man, like, just not for me last year, just not getting any answers. You know, with anything like DJ said, man, and just relying on the ref to make these calls throughout the course of a game, and granted, you're going into the game, certain guys they probably already saying, hey, watch this guy, you're going into the game. Certain guys they probably already saying, hey, watch this guy. And so if it's any hard collisions, you're going to get fined or you're going to get ejected or whatever.
Speaker 4:I remember I was suspended. I was here working out on my trainer and me and him was just talking and stuff, man, and I was just like man, the thing about it is so crazy. It's like everything I do is I'm under a microscope. I said, man, any hard collision that I have going back, it could be anything Like they probably going to get me again. It was like, but the thing about it, like that's how I play the game.
Speaker 4:I play the game to be be first like I don't want to be on the receiving end of nothing. So it's like I gotta. It's like I gotta get you before you get me. So my, that's how I play the game. So I was like man, listen, if I, if I, have any hard collisions, I could make a mistake and run into one of my teammates out there, they still probably going to suspend me again, man. And sure enough, the first game back, first, third down of the game. They didn't eject me, they didn't throw a flag, they just went back and reviewed it and suspended me. And I'm just like man, come on, man.
Speaker 2:Man, it's tough Tough space to be here.
Speaker 3:it's crazy yeah and we're, and obviously we're just sitting on the tailgate and chirping about about the bosses and that and the rules and that kind of thing. But uh, again, I I think that they need to find like some grace in the rule though, if that makes sense, like because, like they're not taking into the. You can't take these hits out of context, because if you talk about because even in high school I think I grew up with some cool coaches but we would get minuses if the guy with the ball finished falling forward the whole goal was to protect every inch was their message. But a true competitor is doing that Like he's. He's knocking you out everywhere and if there's no, if there's no respect for of the defense to make you go that way like it's, it's always going to be a but I but I'm intrigued that, like the, when they keep dialing the defensive back, if the defensive injuries go up, that's gonna what's gonna intrigue, intrigue me like and like.
Speaker 3:How are they again? How are they tracking those things?
Speaker 2:like just in general, I just like they'll just throw it off and say like defensive players can't play longer because it's a violence out of the ball. They're not, they're gonna. That's just what's gonna happen, like when it started. When that starts happening, that's just gonna be the stat like we're just not gonna play as long, and it's gonna be a reason because they need younger legs to do this, but it's really just gonna be guys hurt and they've been hurt because of certain things that they've had to adjust to. And now they out.
Speaker 1:The group chat, the goddamn group chat. Hey y'all. Uh, this is the biggest group we've had in the group chat. We got four of us in here. Me and D's been hopping on the group chat every week just talking some shit. Man, it's good to get a couple new faces, some new voices in here.
Speaker 4:Good to see the guys, man. Hey, I ain't got no job right now, so I got plenty of time.
Speaker 2:We'll have to have you on man, we got plenty of time.
Speaker 4:Hey, hey, after I take the girls to school, go get me a workout in, man, I'll be sitting on my hands man itching. It's always good to get with the guys, man, we got a link or something. Get some dinner or something, man.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate y'all coming on Me and Deej will stick on and do a little outro, but I appreciate y'all, definitely man.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, I appreciate y'all.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Be well boys, yes sir.
Speaker 1:Goddamn Deej, there it is, man.
Speaker 2:There's another one man.
Speaker 1:Another episode of the group chat. The group chat was a big group today. Till next time, exiting the group chat.